Oroborus21

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Posts by Oroborus21

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  175

  This may be my last post…so goodbye and thanks

  by seven006 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i never thought i would do one of those infamous goodbye i cant take this board anymore posts where the person shows up again a week later and looks like an idiot.

  when i had enough of this board and needed a little break i would just quietly leave for a few months and hopefully nobody noticed.

  that is not the case this time.

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  Oroborus21

  Take care and best wishes,

  Eduardo
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  41

  Is 2034 ''New Light''?

  by MidwichCuckoo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  bear with me.

  over the years jw have always strived after/prophesied (even though they deny this) a carrot ''date''.

  as dates come and go, we hear about ''new light'', but according to the wt :-a new view of truth never can contradict a former truth.

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  Oroborus21

  No, only non-Witnesses and opposers are suggesting this date or giving it any meaning. No Witnesses and the Society itself have intepreted the Noachian lead-time in this way.

  -Eduardo
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  18

  What if a publisher would prefer Yahweh?

  by DannyBloem in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.watchtower.org/library/na/article_02.htm.

  when it came to god's name, instead of putting the proper vowel signs around it, in most cases they put other vowel signs to remind the reader that he should say 'adhonai'.

  from this came the spelling iehouah, and, eventually, jehovah became the accepted pronunciation of the divine name in english.

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  Oroborus21

  Greendawn,

  perhaps's the future is already moving towards that. The Society has formally adopted the name "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses" or is it "Jehovah's Christian Witnesses"? I forget. and it is like 2 am and my brain is fuzzy :-)

  but the point is that it is only a Price is Right move to slip out the Jehovah and squeeze together arriving at "Christian Witnesses."

  -Eduardo
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  91

  Which massacres did Jehovah sanction?

  by Spectrum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the ones i'm familiar with are from the repercussion of the rape and murder of the levites concubine.

  judges 19-21 .

  about 100,000 died in battle then all the towns of benjamin were put to the sword as were the people that didn't join in against the benjamites.

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  Oroborus21

  Spectrum,

  Not sure how your thread got hijacked into an abortion debate but anyway, I just wanted to mention that there are several lines of reasoning why the Outrage at Gibeah story at the end of Judges is probably false, was appended, or is at least anachronistic.

  So my point is that one can take a view of the Bible that it still is valuable and is worthy of our attention and consideration without accepting that every iota or tittle is true (or even inspired).

  -Eduardo
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  18

  What if a publisher would prefer Yahweh?

  by DannyBloem in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.watchtower.org/library/na/article_02.htm.

  when it came to god's name, instead of putting the proper vowel signs around it, in most cases they put other vowel signs to remind the reader that he should say 'adhonai'.

  from this came the spelling iehouah, and, eventually, jehovah became the accepted pronunciation of the divine name in english.

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  Oroborus21

  This reminds me of a discussion I once had with an elder regarding whether it would be more fitting to use "Michael" instead of Jesus since the person who was Jesus was Jesus (Yeshua aka Joshua) in earthly life, but that in (current) JW theology he is now Michael in heaven and the time period that the Bible speaks of his activity, that is how he is known (again in current JW theology).

  He saw my point and said that if I privately did that it would be ok, but not to do that from the platform in prayer or whatever as it would possibly stumble others.

  Then about a week or so later, he showed the the scripture "in the name of Jesus, every one shall bend their knee" or whatever and said that it thus indicated that only THAT name was fitting to be used as a reference to Jesus in prayer, etc.

  I think the point of the matter is that such things as this and the Yahweh/Jehovah discussion stress the rigid literalism that Jehovah's Witnesses possess at times and goes to show how the religion can sometimes be distanced from the real value or spiritual heart of the matter.

  While it may be true as JWs say, that it seems to be more proper to use a "personal" name if we want a relationship with God or Christ and conducive to intimacy, one must be careful not to be overly dogmatic about it and recognize that you can use a person's name as much as you want but if your relationship is actually strained because of other reasons it is not going to help you to be any closer to that person. And conversely if you have an extremely harmonious and intimate relationship with someone, it is possible to go for extended periods of time without even whispering that person's name.

  -Eduardo
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  8

  Dating is either a nightmare or hilarious (depending on my mood!)

  by Cady in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  so on rare occasions i get the brilliant idea that online dating is worth a shot.

  i'm in the psych program at school, 90% of which is female, and since i work and am in school almost all the time i tend to only rarely run into single guys my age.. so this guy invited me to his company's yearly party sat.

  - he actually works for this huge online retailer, so lots of techy people and what not, good drinks, whatever.

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  Oroborus21

  yeah, it is really going to be hit and miss with that kind of dating.

  there is of course a lot of info and advice out there for you so I will just give you my 20 second recommendation: Take an evening class at an extension college program or community college. It might only be once or twice a week and affordable. You will not only be enriching yourself, but you will probably have the opportunity to meet some adult single guys in a safe and sober environment. (or any other type of learning situation, like a culinary class, something at the museum, etc.)

  -Eduardo
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  12

  Whoah and I thought some JW tracts were silly

  by Oroborus21 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  but these on this site are hilarious - "let's scare them out of hell" seems to be their theme:.

  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0001/0001_01.asp?wpc=0001_01.asp&wpp=b.

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  Oroborus21

  PS: Check out Jack Chick's "Halloween Message". He urges putting the tracts in the kiddie's Halloween baskets.

  Wow, at least Jehovah's Witnesses aren't that cruel. They just don't open the door in the first place.

  -Eduardo
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  12

  Whoah and I thought some JW tracts were silly

  by Oroborus21 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  but these on this site are hilarious - "let's scare them out of hell" seems to be their theme:.

  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0001/0001_01.asp?wpc=0001_01.asp&wpp=b.

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  Oroborus21

  But these on this site are hilarious - "let's scare them out of hell" seems to be their theme:

  http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0001/0001_01.asp?wpc=0001_01.asp&wpp=b

  -Eduardo
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  32

  Is There Truly Any "Underground Reform" Going On?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  not an organized type, at least.

  as an elder, i would try to bend the organization's rules so as to be more moderate and give the "sheep" a little more comfort.

  but no elder or group of people could organize such a group and stay within the watchtower's (kingdom hall's) walls.

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  Oroborus21

  I believe that reform is progressing and will eventually build to a critical mass. The Internet is playing a major part.

  It is true that past (potential) leaders of any reform efforts such as Franz and Christenson were not very successful and that even iconoclastic forerunners like Randy, Kent, Carl et al. have produced only minimal effect thus far.

  But 1) the work of these persons is far from over because with the Internet more active JWs are able to access their work and writings and 2) again the Internet now permits the coordination of reform/revolutionary efforts with relative safeties and in safe harbors free from premature exposure or censorship and finally 3) the "time" for reform or revolution withing the broader timeline and evolution of the religion was not yet right until our time period.

  I have said it before, the Organization is currently at an unprecendented position and crossroads in its history: theologically (without any viable end-time prediction, construct like the Generation Docrtine or specific date -- something that is totally unique in its 125 year history), organizationally (without any semblance of leadership or direction by the now meaningless presidency(ies) or the Governing Body), psychologically (both as a function of the foregoing and as a function of our larger 21st Century society), materially (as it copes with the voluntary donation arrangement), and paradigmatically (as it transitions from its 20th Century Publishing House model to what it will be in the 21st Century).

  Finally, every Revolution or Reformation requires the courage of a few individuals to lead the way, sometimes even a single individual can make a difference. On this day when the death of Dr. King's wife is remembered, we can easily suppose how differently things might be or that the Civil Rights movement of the later 20th Century might have progressed much more slowly without MLK's and others like him taking a leadership role.

  Who will be the leaders of the Revolution among Jehovah's Witnesses in the 21st Century?

  We shall see.

  -Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
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  37

  Crazy Californian Witnesses...

  by Dune in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i dont know if you guys noticed or not.

  but there is a general consensus among my friends and some witnesses that i talk to that there is something almost inherently wrong with californian witnesses.

  (i'm on the east coast) .

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  Oroborus21

  Greetings!

  I grew up in small town New Mexico so I am familiar with the congregatons/circuit and district of the Southwest. Then came out here to Los Angeles in 1989.

  I think, aside from the socio-economic cultural differences and there are those of course, as far as the Witness culture itself, there isn't much of a difference. If anything, I have found the Calif congregations that I have seen or been a part of to be more conservative and orthodox in practice than the ones in the Southwest.

  However, California does seem to have more congregations of mixed cultures/ethnicities and I suspect that this situation might have given rise to unfounded claims that California congregations are more liberal.

  Additionally, in LA at least there is certainly a lot more recreational opportunities than elsewhere so this also might be a source for the belief that California JWs are living it up and partying types.

  -Eduardo