Posts by Oroborus21

31

ARRESTED-ELDER SEX 12 y.o. IN K-HALL

by DannyHaszard in

former elder heads to trial on sex charges

news & observer, nc - 14 minutes ago .

pittsboro -- a former jehovah's witnesses minister accused of repeatedly having sex with two underage girls in the group's siler city church is scheduled to go ... .

Oroborus21

Greetings,

The scariest aspect of this story is how alllegations can be made and a guy's life can be ruined without corroborating evidence. We live in a Salem's Witches world where our concern in protecting our young has overthrown the principles of justice and truth. God forbid that anyone ever make baseless allegations about you.

Regarding this case, the Elders might have DF'd simply for the notoriety "bringing disrepute on the Org" without any evidence of whether the guy actually did this or not. If the defense attorney is to be believed there is no evidence other than the testimony of the victims. That is always a scary prospect. Let's leave it to a jury who actually will see and hear the trial before convicting him in the court of public opinion.

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

40

Quotes lawsuit update

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

can anyone give us an update on the status of the suit?

Oroborus21

Greetings!

It is too bad Quotes isn't located in California or California's Anti-SLAPP laws would speed things along. All Quotes would have to do is show that what he was doing was protected free speech activity and the burden would shift to the WTS to prove that it would prevail on the merits or else suffer a summary judgment motion.

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

37

Holy Crap! Star Trek's Sulu is gay!

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

looks like lots of people are "coming out" right now.... http://www.cnn.com/2005/showbiz/tv/10/28/people.georgetakei.ap/index.htmlgeorge takei, 'trek's' sulu: i'm gay.

los angeles, california (ap) -- george takei, who as "star trek's" sulu was part of the starship enterprise crew through three television seasons and six movies, has come out as a homosexual in the current issue of frontiers, a biweekly los angeles magazine covering the gay and lesbian community.. takei told the associated press on thursday that his new onstage role as psychologist martin dysart in "equus," helped inspire him to publicly discuss his sexuality.. takei described the character as a "very contained but turbulently frustrated man.

" the play opened wednesday at the david henry hwang theater in los angeles, the same day that frontiers magazine featured a story on takei's coming out.. the current social and political climate also motivated takei's disclosure, he said.. "the world has changed from when i was a young teen feeling ashamed for being gay," he said.

Oroborus21

What didn't anyone else notice that one of the screens on his instrument panel was obviously a GAYDAR

take a look at some of the original episodes.

-Eduardo

15

Relationship/money/other troubles...advice...

by aloneinPA in

jw
friends

i look like a newbie, but i post under another name.

the reason i created this new name was to keep a certain someone, who reads this board but does not post, from discovering this post.. i posted about this business that my boyfriend is involved in.

i was skeptical about it.

Oroborus21

Oh boy that's what I was afraid of.

Ok well then this requires a new tactic. For one thing you need to know whether the MLM is legit or is completely a scam. Bear in mind that while all MLMs work off the same principle and fail for the same reasons, not all MLMs are the same.

First you want to check to see if there is any information at these sites:

http://www.mlmwatch.org/index.html

http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/index.htm

http://www.ripoffreport.com/

http://www.bbbonline.org/consumer/

also check your local state Attorney General, and State Secretary, State Dept of Consumer Affairs, County or City Dept of Consumer Affairs, online to see if there are any complaints. Google the name of the MLM with the keywords "fraud" or "scam" to find any negative info out there.

If you find a lot of info that indicates that the MLM is questionable you may be able to save your guy a lot of trouble, info that you can gently present to him. (it is a lot like trying to present negative info about the Organization to JWs)

One of the major problems wiht MLMs that you want to be aware of is that success is very much dependent upon your relationships and the size of your social network. My definition most MLMs are "relationship marketing" and so if you (or rather he) has a large social network, with a number of people that are willing to buy in, he might enjoy some limited success. However, since most people don't or can't get the kind of participation from others required to make the person successful, the recruitment activity tends to alienate a lot of your friends and family. You should me prepared for that and may have to mend fences later.

best wishes,

Eduardo

PS: I am curious to know which MLM this is. I have some experience with MLMs as I grew up in a household where my dad tried every MLM around at the time, including Amway and Herballife. I was recruited for two others not too long ago, including Future Horizons aka Liquidity International the latest project by a well-known MLM-huckster Marc Accetta, and World Group Financial, an asian based financial "consulting" scam and if you can believe it I actually tried ACN for a year.

15

Relationship/money/other troubles...advice...

by aloneinPA in

jw
friends

i look like a newbie, but i post under another name.

the reason i created this new name was to keep a certain someone, who reads this board but does not post, from discovering this post.. i posted about this business that my boyfriend is involved in.

i was skeptical about it.

Oroborus21

Hi Alone,

You asked what is the best way to approach him about your concerns and I say directly. At an appropriate time (not in bed, not when anyone is rushed, etc. and soon) just sit down and discuss your concerns.

Begin by reassuring him that you are fully behind him, emotionally and to some extent financially, and support him in his endeavours BUT that you do have some concerns.

For one thing you should say that in order for you to be fully supportive you want to know much more about the business, his plans, etc.

(sorry I missed your other thread, please tell me this is not an MLM!!!)

Discuss any potential problems that you may see, try to see how much actual thought he has put into developing concrete goals and objectives and the timeline for reaching those. this will be good for both of you as you will get an idea from this how prepared he actually is and some indication of how long you might have to wait for the situation to improve.

Mostly focus on your concerns and see if he has any answers as to how he might address those concerns.

At this time, I wouldn't place any pressure upon him. The above might need to be repeated at least once if you don't see progress.

At some point if his endeavours are not working out, you will need to try to get him to agree to something probably along the lines of if he doesn't reach such and such goal than he will return to work or find a job and continue to work on this business part-time.

Then at some point you simply will need to give him an ultimatum if it isn't working out. At some point it is unreasonable for you to be sole breadwinner at your current income. If you were a highly paid professional, then I would not see anything wrong with you being the sole breadwinner while he worked on his own business.

New businesses take a lot of time, I know, I have been working at my solo-law practice for more than a year now and things are still slow. It may be another year or so before I am making what I used to make at my last job and it may be four or five years before I am pulling in six figures or more a year.

to some extent it all depends on your patience and the potential for success in his business and of course how much you love him and want to be with him and what you are willing to do and how you are willing to live until things improve to the level that you desire. Only you can know these things.

best wishes and luck,

Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

14

Can anyone tell me about the UN

by PoppyR in

i'm so sorry that i'm sure everytime somone new joins you're going over the same thing again, but all this is very new to me, in fact i've done very little this past week except read articles and cross reference the wt cd rom..lol, everyone thinks i'm getting spiritual again, anyway!

i have read several references to the jws and the un.. can anyone shed some light on the matter, ie point me in the direction of good posts or articles about it, as i'm still unclear what has been going on.

i'm most interested in the facts of the case which is what i think this board is best at!.

Oroborus21

PoppyR,

It's a minor scandal/major embarrassment which opposers of Jehovah's Witnesses are gleefully pushing as a "smoking gun" of "Watchtower apostacy," "double-standards", ad nauseum.

Opposers would have people believe that the UN Scandal is the equivalent of the WTS getting in bed with the U.N. and carrying on in an intimate relationship of support and backing when it is NOTHING like that at all.

In reality all it really amounts to is no one in authority pausing to think about the implications and "how it looks" for the Society to be an official NGO member of the U.N., regardless of the supposed reasons.

After the Society got caught in this questionable status, they made the mistake of compounding the error with half-truths, lies and cover-ups which has only fueled the fire and made the whole thing look even worse than it actually is.

It's like the actions of the Nixon administration (which were major crimes) after the rather minor crime (relatively) of the actual Watergate break-in by some bumbling nobody underlings.

There are only two truly significant things that arose out of the whole UN Scandla.

First, is that it proved for the first time the power of the Internet among the Organization in our modern climate because literallly 1 or 2 days after the story broke on the Internet and the inquiries began to fly, the Society asked the U.N. to withdraw its NGO membership.

And second it revealed the disconnect between the messages sent to the audience, the Worldwide Association, and those responsible for creating the message. This later facet is probably something which has been developing at the top of the Org ever since Fred Franz died and there hasn't been any one person with the power and the will to look at the global communication emanating from the Tower and shape it into a cohesiveness. This is why for the last couple of decades the Society's messages have devolved into a whole scattered multi-cultural hodgepodge that just seems completely impotent of any motivating force. This is also why now there is simply nothing "new" being generated by the current leadership and all that is being done is repetitive regurgitation of the same info, messages and communication.

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

36

I can't read the WT and AWAKE anymore

by Jez in

hundreds of supplementary publications written by unnamed authors that can hide behind the watchtower and bible tract society and say anything without referencing it.

lately, i have been thinking that this is one of the reasons that the society does not encourage higher education.

try handing in an essay without your name on it, try not referencing your essay, try having no works cited, try to have only 1 works cited, try quoting out of context, try spewing statistics or numbers or trends in your essay with no reference or date, add ellipsis that only alert your instructor to the potential of hidden information, or try presenting as support for your thesis a third party quote.

Oroborus21

RevFrank,

The demons also believe and even shudder. By your reasoning they would also be adopted by God.

Clearly belief that Christ was born from God is not all that the scripture implies is necessary when it refers to "belief" it also implies taking some action.

-Eduardo

PS: hello Yaldah, I hope you don't get frightened away by all the Yahoos who don't know how to properly welcome a girl. WELCOME!

This forum is for everyone, but it is mostly haunted by those disposed against Jehovah's Witnesses, just FYI. As you know from the latest YPA articles regarding "chatrooms" which unequivocally say that (good) JWs should stay away from them, the Society has the same attitude towards forums so keep it in mind should you desire to hang around and check this place out. Please feel free to join in and participate or lurk, you will learn a lot.

9

Apostasy in the early church? NO

by greendawn in

having checked the history of the early church to the time of constantine, i find the claim that the church apostasized after the death of the last apostle around 100 ad as being grossly mistaken.

to cut a long story short it appears that those holding high ranks (ie the bishops) in the church did eventually become corrupted through lust for power and glory culminating in the unnatural union with the roman state but there never was a wilful corruption of doctrine and loss of divine grace as the jws claim in that period.

things with the r&f carried on much as under the apostles with some churches being spiritually strong and some weak.

Oroborus21

You need to keep researching a bit further.

The Constantine era is when what we know as orthodoxy became orthodoxy. For 2 centuries before that there were bodies of faith and interpretations of Christianity battling for followers and supremacy. We only know a bit of the "losers" like the Gnostics (more now since the findings of Nag Hamadi) and others, from a few writings of the church fathers and since most of these works (advocating these non-orthodox views) were lost, suppressed or destroyed we may never know the full extent of the conflicts.

The point is that "apostacy" had certainly crept into the early church, even Paul refers to some of these "heretical" teachings and some scholars feel that a few of the letters attributed to Paul were actually direct reactions to such apostacies.

The bottom line is that there probably was never a "pure" unadulterated form of Christianity and persons had different ideas and views from the beginning. Even the disciples had different views of God's Kingdom, Jesus' purpose, their future, etc. Do you think these differences just resolved themselves when he went away? No, rather they intensified. They fought over how Jewish Christians should be and how Christian Jews should be. They fought over control, and leadership and doctrine and these fights have never stopped.

There are only a few elemental things in Christianity that have remained more or less true, perhaps only one - that Christ died for us.

The idea that all Christians have always agreed on everything else is a fairytale.

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

30

Circumcision?

by jstalin in

does the wts have anything to say about circumcision?

is there an official doctrine?

Oroborus21

Coffee,

that reminds me of something that happened with my sister. She along with this Elder had this bible study, a young guy about my age, and for some reason circumcision had come up in the study. Well the guy didn't know what it was so my sister asked me if I could explain it to the guy (not sure why the elder didn't). I never did so I don't know what the outcome was.

-Eduardo

30

Circumcision?

by jstalin in

does the wts have anything to say about circumcision?

is there an official doctrine?

Oroborus21

Whoops! I did mean to say "Circumsized" not un-

That is definitely the preference and you can ask any gaggle of women if you don't believe me.

-Ed