Posts by Oroborus21

6

Blood Transfusions

by ian360 in

jw
friends

hey guys, .

i suspect this one might come under quite a lot of criticism so i might need to protect myself a little here.

okay, here is the situation: .

Oroborus21

howdy,

I am sure you will get a lot of links to all the info that is out there from people if you haven't already checked out the topic.

As to your specific question, while there is some evidence that points to non-religious reasons why one might refuse a blood transfusion, all of these reasons, benefits and percentages are far outweighed by the benefits and medical effect of receiving a transfusion.

Secondly, the position (interpretation) that Jehovah's Witnesses have on blood has been sliding towards gradual acceptance of Blood and the ultimate discarding of the current ban on blood (doctrine). A few feel, and I am one of these, that it is a certainty that Jehovah's Witnesses will ultimately accept blood transfusions and discard the old doctrine. Exactly when this may occur, if at all, is a matter of debate, but I believe that it will happen over the next 15-20 years.

Obviously, it sounds though that what you are dealing with is your girlfriend's personal convictions, and since she isn't an active Witness, it is hard to say whether whatever changes occur or have occurred within the Org would effect her own views.

I would say that if the differences in worldview, your being an atheist and her being a believer to some extent, are not insurmountable in your relationship then you should not make the blood issue the major obstacle to your marrying her since it is likely to turn out to be inconsequential 1) once she actually has a child and has to face such a situation of choosing blood or possibly losing the child 2) that you may be able to reason with her and convince her over time or 3) that the Organizational changes may influence her view.

If it is at all possible, and if she really really desires to marry you, perhaps she would be willing to sign a written agreement that sets forth that in an emergency or the development of a life threatening illness that blood transfusions and blood products will remain a medical option and if you choose upon the advice of a doctor to allow such that she will not attempt to prevent it. Have an attorney draw it up (get a prenup while you are at it) specify the child(ren) and get it signed dated and notarized and redo it every 3 years and every time you have an addition to your family.

-Eduardo

153

I've got $500 on Taylor Hicks to win American Idol ( 10 to 1 odds ) : )

by a Christian in

i've got $500.00 on taylor hicks to win american idol.

at 10 to one odds ( pinnacle sports ) !

normally i'm not a gambling man.

Oroborus21

This is terrible politically incorrect but thank god that cow is gone. She has a lot of talent but it was terrifying to watch her bounce around the stage. I was fearful the set might collapse.

Hopefully Taylor Hicks will win but I am always rooting for the babes, Pickler and Kat.

They all have future careers at this point, beyond whatever promotion they are locked into.

What is up with Kenny Rogers? My god, when I saw him yesterday he was unrecognizable. He has had so much plastic surgery his skin was tighter than a snare drum and from the top mustache up he is totally freakish looking now. Somebody needs to get to him before he becomes the Michael Jackson of country music.

29

The death of the Watchtower pre-study

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

who is old enough to remember when witnesses used eagerly to meet on a friday or saturday night to "pre-study" the watchtower in groups: reading paragraphs, underlining, reading scriptures (sometimes)?.

what happened to that, does anyone still do it anywhere?

i think witnesses are just not as enthusiastic about the "truth" as they used to be.

Oroborus21

I remember doing that as a kid and especially one time when my bro baked cinnamon buns.

This is just a theory, but during the Great Bethel Inquisition involving Ray Franz and gang part of the suspicious activity was their gathering for their own bible study. I suspect that after that time, gathering in private groups like that, even for supposed Watchtower study, came to be frowned upon.

After all, such group study would probably be inherently informal (because if it was a formal WT study then it would be viewed as replacing the one on Sunday and thus obviously questionable). In such an informal setting, and with the free flow of discussion persons might begin expressing views which are unothodox or worse from the Society's perspective, perhaps views that challenge the official interpretations.

Then of course you always have the social aspects, some persons would feel excluded, the whole thing could become cliqueish, there might not be enough adequate supervision of the teens, etc.

So these are just some of the reasons that the kind of thing isn't encouraged and is probably discouraged.

-Eduardo

1

Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View by Stanley Milgram

by What-A-Coincidence in

jw
friends

a show on coasttocoast 640 here in l.a. is talking about the view of stanley milgram at this moment http://www.coasttocoastam.com/ .

damm thing sounds great.

i am going to buy the book.

Oroborus21

We studied about these experiments in my psych classes back in college. Very interesting stuff but remember that the results indicate what can occur under very controlled conditions. The application of the findings to more dynamic situations is quite limited.

Incidently, ABC's Primetime recently did a segment on False Confessions. A simple experiment that was set-up, demonstrated how easy it is for many people to "falsely confess" to something which they know they did not do in the face of an authority figure and often a second false witness. http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=1783918&page=1

These types of situations show how much a person may bend in an intense situation or in the face of an authority figure but again one should understand the limits of such obsevations or findings.

A similar real-world event that occurs quite frequently is the observation that despite the fact that pretty much every TV viewer in the U.S. understands that he or she "has the right to remain silent" when in police custody, persons in a massive majority still open their mouths and talk.

In law school, my professor discussed with us a study that he helped conduct back in the 60s/early 70s where they actually took a bunch of extremely well educated college students (graduate students) who were planning on burning their draft cards or protesting the Vietnam war or something like that (they were expected to be arrested) and reviewed with them thoroughly their right to remain silent nd the reasons and benefits thereof. Yet despite the experimental group's training, when it came time and they were taken into custody only a very tiny fraction actually remained silent when they were being interviewed by the federal investigators.

-Eduardo

10

The Memorial Head Counts

by Cabin in the woods in

jw
friends

does anyone remember about how long it takes for the number of memorial attendees as well as the count of partakers to be announced to the public?

for the life of me i can not remember.

i am certain that those numbers are not held back until the yearbook.

Oroborus21

At the service meeting after the Memorial, they usually announce the local Memorial Attendance.

The Society has frequently given the Branch Memorial numbers with the Monthly service report a few months later. This has not been consistent and some years no figures were given. The format seemed to vary also.

In 1992, the August KM for the May service report included this:

MEMORIAL

REPORT FOR 1992

1992 1991 Difference

Total Attendance: 1,939,220 1,910,194 +29,026 (1.5%)

Number of Partakers: 3,602 3,666 –64 (–1.7%)

The 1993 August KM with reference to the Service Report for April gave this:.

A Fine Memorial Report

The Memorial attendance on April 6 was 1,975,255, a fine increase of 36,035 over last year’s attendance and more than twice the number of publishers in the United States. This indicates excellent potential for increase in our generally well-worked territory. The number of partakers at the Memorial was 3,602

In 1994, the format looking like the 1992 format was this:

May

Service Report

Av. Av. Av. Av.

Number of: Hrs. Mags. R.V. Bi.St.

Sp’l Pios. 206 124.8 73.9 51.3 5.3

Pios. 70,750 80.8 34.4 25.3 2.6

Aux.Pios. 31,343 59.0 26.3 15.2 1.4

Pubs. 786,318 10.0 5.7 3.7 0.5

TOTAL 888,617 Baptized: 2,509

MEMORIAL REPORT

1994 1993 Difference

Attendance: 1,994,485 1,975,255 +19,230 (1.0%)

Partakers: 3,535 3,591 –56 (1.6%)

----------

1994 seems to be the last year that the Memorial Report was given in the KM with the service report from the same month.

After that the appareances are what is contained in the annual reports and yearbooks.

-Eduardo

16

A comment my Mom made

by Junction-Guy in

jw
friends

mom and i were discussing some recent books on the catholic church, and mom said that supposedly the catholic church was holding some major secrets on the bible and that if the catholic people were to ever find out, they would literally destroy the catholic church and there would be rioting in the streets.

i told mom, "look at all of the children who have died from no blood, look at all of the people who forsook college education, look at all of the families destroyed, look at all of the children molested, look all of the lies of the wt society, and yet the wt society still flourishes, the catholic church would probably get through that too".

she just told me that they would tear that church apart.

Oroborus21

sounds like she has picked up some of the thought behind the Da Vinci Code, perhaps even subconsciously or without really thinking about it. Maybe she heard something on the TV or someone discussing the theory. Maybe she would like the movie?

Keep in mind it is all fiction and all in good clean fun.

-Eduardo

3

Can a witness get D.F.'d for celebrating a holiday?

by Chico86 in

Oroborus21

yes and no,

there are a lot of circumstances involved, the person's circumstances, whether they were the initiators or just co-participants with a worldly spouse, etc. whether they are a pioneer, elder, or MS, etc.

and then there are holidays and then there are HOLIDAYS.

many JWs essentially are not any different than worldly persons when it comes to what is involved with "celebrating" some holidays: thanksgiving , labor day, memorial day, Martin Luther King day, 4th of July, Mother's/Father's Days, even New Year's Eve and even Valentine's (though probably just a gift, flowers or a nice dinner for one's sweetie without cupid or a card and all). (These are just the ones in the U.S., others may know of similar in their countries).

you might note that on many of these days there is nothing in particular that most people do but take the day off from work - JWs don't usually reject such days off, unless they can get holiday pay.

The big three no-nos are Christmas, Easter and Halloween and of course Birthdays (but even some celebrate birthdays discreetly.)

celebrating a holiday or having the accoutrements publicly out there, can be cause to get the usual work over. First a back-room visit or perhaps a shepherding call, then depending if the person is not sufficiently sorry enough or whatever, it could escalate their to formal JC.

Very often though, I think what happens in a judicial committee meeting is that the person's whole attitude (and of course loyalty) is explored and it is usually for other reasons that one is technically disfellowshipped.

Having thus described that it is possible to be DF'd, I personally don't know any who have been DF'd for that reason (or for that pretext) and I don't think it happens very often, probably because if one is really going to start openly celebrating holidays they are already on their way out of the Organization and already have a number of other reasons why they want to leave.

There are not too many (true-believing) JWs that also want to openly celebrate holidays - though most if not many would if it were permissible.

-Eduardo

35

Anyone else awake????

by lola28 in

jw
friends

.

it's almost one am and i can't sleep, anyone else here?.

lola

Oroborus21

we can chat if you want, check your pm for the address. -ed

35

Anyone else awake????

by lola28 in

jw
friends

.

it's almost one am and i can't sleep, anyone else here?.

lola

Oroborus21

hey sent you PMs..do you think it is the time change or have you been restless a lot lately. me I haven't been sleeping for a few weeks, but I got a lot going on...

-eduardo

30

OK. So Who Want's To Take Me To THe Memorial?

by OpenFireGlass in

jw
friends

.

Oroborus21

You could come with me, since I see you are in California, but then we also have to go my friend's Passover Seder right afterwards and I would be worried that it might be your Last Supper :-)

-Eduardo