Yo Bobcat, great minds think alike. I also like the paragraph headings of the Holman Christian Standard Bible in Matt. 24 and Rev. This is also how I understand it, especially in Matthew. Signs of the end of the age > Persecutions predicted > The great tribulation > The coming of the sons of man, etc.
Posts by Vidqun
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50The United Nations will attack Christendom
by Doug Mason inthis is a serious question and i hope to receive intelligent explanations.. .
the wts says that the great tribulation lies in the future.
they write that it will start when the united nations attacks christendom.. .
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The United Nations will attack Christendom
by Doug Mason inthis is a serious question and i hope to receive intelligent explanations.. .
the wts says that the great tribulation lies in the future.
they write that it will start when the united nations attacks christendom.. .
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Vidqun
Why on earth would the political system turn on religion and ignore JWs? As a cult they would be first to go. Anyway, whatever you believe to be the interpretation of Babylon the Great, they have the sequence all wrong. First of all, if Christendom is all bad, what are they doing in a holy place (Matt. 24:15)? Meaning of "holy" = consecrated of of God, set apart. Secondly, according to Revelation 16, Babylon will be remembered last, during plague seven, the last plague. At the at the end of the tribulation, Babylon will be destroyed, not at the beginning. My five cents worth.
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Vidqun
I have a problem with their explanation of the sequence of events leading up to Armageddon. Rev. 16 discusses the last seven plagues visited upon mankind. The destruction of Babylon the Great occurs during the seventh plague, right at the end of the tribulation. They view it as the beginning of the great tribulation.
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Vidqun
Welcome CC! Two things you can help me with: Firstly, I would love to hear your definition and application of Christian neutrality in connection with the UN and OSCE. Secondly, do you not think God's true organization on earth today will protect its young more effectively against predators? Thank you in anticipation.
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Challenge for JW's - how do you arrive at 1919 using the Bible alone?
by yadda yadda 2 inany takers?
jw apologists or anyone, convince us why you are sure that jesus appointed the watchtower society in 1919 using the bible alone.
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Vidqun
Yadda, under the thread "The 1919 date" Cedars posted a little diagram that he received at an earlier MTS (not older than ten years). I see the diagram is not there anymore. Ask him to send it to you. On the diagram they make up the shortfall to 1919 with nine months (3 1/2 days = 9 months). This is the period when Rutherford et al were incarcerated. Here they apply the period 3 1/2 days (Rev. 11:9), the death of the two witnesses, to the arrest of the leaders of the WT. Unfortunately there is no Biblical evidence for it though. Just thought you might find it interesting.
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Challenge for JW's - how do you arrive at 1919 using the Bible alone?
by yadda yadda 2 inany takers?
jw apologists or anyone, convince us why you are sure that jesus appointed the watchtower society in 1919 using the bible alone.
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Vidqun
When I did research in the good old (bad old) days, this is what I came up with:
All their convoluted reasoning hinges on the 1914 date. According to their explanation of the "seven times" of Dan. 2: End of the Gentile times (7 x 360 = 2520 years), from 607 BCE to "fall of 1914." If you add 3 1/2 years to that, you hit 1919 (see "time, times and half a time" of Dan. 12:7 and 1260 days = 42 months of Rev. 11:2, 3). All of these scriptures they apply to the war period, 1914-1918.
Now add to the mix the 3 1/2 years of Jesus' earthly ministry. Jesus judged the temple at the beginning and at the end of his ministry (cf. 1st cleansing John 2:13-17; 2nd cleansing Matt. 21:12, 13; Mark 11:15-17; Luke 19:45, 46). So, according to WT reasoning, Jesus' presence would start at the end of 1914. Three and a half years later he would inspect his temple, according to Malachi 3:1. This brings one to 1919.
During my JC I proved to them that above scriptures cannot apply to the 1914-1918 war period. E.g. At Dan. 12:7 it says that the hand (=power) of God's people will be shattered (like a clay vessel). In Rev. 11 the beast that ascends out of the abyss, which they identify as the League of Nations and the UN, which kills the two witnesses, did not exist during the 1914-1918 period, etc. But to no avail, I was disfellowshipped as an apostate for my trouble.
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24
Where to begin?
by DATA-DOG ingood morning everyone,.
i am drinking coffee and thinking about something that kept my tossing and turning all night.
i want to tell my wife, the elders, my friends, that i have been watching a pattern develope within the wtbts for years, and that i love them all but feel that tha wtbts has become a mirror of ancient jerusalem when they strayed.
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Vidqun
Data-Dog, I have respectfully aired above concerns, about them resembling Jerusalem and the wayward Israelites, and of course their break in neutrality with the ongoing UN-OSCE affair. I was respectfully disfellowshipped for my trouble. I was extremely respectful and proved each statement from the Scriptures. The elders sat with their Sheperding-books on their laps and reached their decision in less than ten minutes. It was announced at the KH that I do not wish to be a JW anymore. Thus I was kicked out = disfellowshipped and is now known as an apostate. You will find that there is absolutely no tolerance for freedom of speech nor thinking amongst the elders of JWs. As MrsCedars said: If that's the way you want to go, "Be prepared for anything."
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Could the JWs sway you back...?
by new22day inop based on mr. freeze's topic - could attending the meetings/studying again sway any of you back to the org.
hearing the propaganda over and over again is pretty powerful i'm sure.
(i'm a non-jw, non-christian (no offense), stubborn as a bull and even i had moments of pause based on some of the doctrine (lasted 30 seconds) but i never had family/friends at stake or a background in this.
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Vidqun
Once bitten, twice shy.
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Vidqun
Welcome, Brother of the Hawk, you have interesting experiences. You're right. There is a lot we do not know. I also believe there is another dimension out there, but have not experienced it as you have. I think I have the "spirituality" of a plank. Everything of the best and may you and your family find a lot of happiness and understaning in you enlightened state. Interestingly, there is no Scripture in the Bible that condemns gambling. Ask me, I have looked. The only indirect Scriptures that point in that direction are those in connection with greed.
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the seven trumpets have not yet been sounded
by MASIMBA inin the book revelation its grand climax at hand in chapter 18 (earthquakes in the lords day) on page 112, the writers mention that the sixth seal is going to be opened some time in the future and yet they go on to mention in chapter 21 (jehovahs plagues on christendom) that the seven trumpets have already been blown and they give explanations of the fulfillment of these trumpet blasts in mankinds history.
however, i believe it is impossible for the seven trumpets to have been sounded before the opening of the sixth seal because firstly, as they pointed out in the book, the sounding of the seven trumpets is ushered in by the opening of the seventh seal, which seal is only opened after the sixth seal has been opened as happened with the other seals.
the seals were opened or are opened in order form the first to the seventh, which is the last, without skipping one and going to the next.
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Vidqun
Masimba, don't be intimidated by the negative posts. Their bark is worse than their bite. I have sent you a PM. Double click on the envelope, located on the right hand corner above. If the first try does not succeed, do it again.