i posted this onto a previous thread, but wanted to start it on a new one as well.
as jws, we lack the "social outlet" all humans need, to have true friends one can speak openly and honestly with and not be afraid of judgmentalism.
what i've seen firsthand is that the "nucleus" of the congregation often has this need filled: elders, ms's, pioneers, and their families often do things together.
Hi Troubled,
It's so nice to meet you and hear your thoughts.
Boy! Your story could have almost been written by me. I stopped meeting attendance about 5 months ago & have realized the same things. People 'help' only if you're always out in service. I've had health problems for a couple of years and the 'friends' dwindled fairly rapidly.
I'm relieved to be out of that kind of hurtful society.
Welcome!
Pat
arguments from natural theology are at times needed when christians defend the faith against atheological attacks.
yet, for the christian, such apologetic maneuvers are not required in and of themselves, for christians know that they are not in a relationship with a force or an abstract superlative entity devised by human adroitness.
no, christians heed the sensus divinitatis and the confirmatory evidence that god provides to those who love him.
Hi all,
Interesting posts--but have to admit didn't read all of dunsscot's (too long and devoid of real meaning).
Just wanted to jump in and make one point that has been made in other terms by others. That is, if you claim something contrary to human experience (thru the senses), such as fairies in the back yard, the burden of proof is on you. No one has to disprove it.
Likewise, the atheist is not obligated to disprove the existence of God. It is not demonstrable by every criteria that humans use. That's why faith is critical for the believer.
Pat
P.S. In my editing: it's not fair to say Dunsscot's posts are devoid of meaning as I didn't read them, just skimmed a couple. The accurate statement is 'they SEEMED devoid of meaning.'
hospital liason committee (hlc).
pertinent background: my b-i-l is devout jw elder.
was in accident years ago - his neck bones have deterioriated to the point that after many tests,it has been determined he must have 7.5 hr surgery to stabilize his head and neck within one month.. he has spoken with at least one practicing neurologist and one practicing neurosurgeon (another non-practicing).
Hi Waiting!!
Interesting story, if not very frustrating! What a bind the WTS puts people into and it involves their very lives!
It seems the HLC would not really want to unnecessarily endanger their members, but get locked into it supporting their untenable position. It's as Sam Bell stated, really busy surgeons do not have to give into JW demands (what a good point!).
From the HLC's perspective, it reminds me of 'oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we start to deceive . . .'
Warmly,
Pat
are the posters on this board getting younger?
it's certainly a lot more light hearted than turgid ole h20 ever was, why even our resident dubs are starting to find a sense of humour!.
'course, i know that most of you here are a fair bit younger than this silver surfer is - even if i do have the physique of a greek god ha ha!
Hi Eman,
I've had the same experience as you since leaving the dubs in that I am more honest. But not in picayune matters, but in larger ways.
I do the right thing because I figure it out, not because of Talmud-like rules of the WTS.
I also like people a LOT more. They're not just 'worldly' people that are slated for destruction therefore must be wicked. They're folks just trying to live just like me. It's wonderful!
Pat
according to the theosophical glossary of helene petrovna blavatsky.
jehovah (heb.).
the jewish "diety name is compound of two words , viz of jah (y i or j, yodh, the tenth letter of the alphabet) and hovah (havah, or eve)," says a kabalistic authority, mr. j. ralston skinner of cinciniati, u.s.a. and again, "the word jehovah, or jah-eve, has the primary meaning of existence or being as male female".
Hi,
I thought the definition was pretty convoluted and difficult to follow. I suspect a capable scholarly person could poke holes in it, but that's just a knee-jerk reaction. But thanks for sharing!
Pat
ill be praying for you.
this thread is not about literally praying for someone (not trying to get into a discussion here about the existence of a god) so much as it is about the thought behind such words uttered by one person by another individual who the speaker knows is facing a difficult situation.
here is what happened to me while i was still trying to hang on as a jw (though i knew full-well that there were many problems with the jw faith):.
Hiya Sam,
Good story. It is strange, isn't it? Once at my work, a woman's husband was dying and a card went around. Most signed it saying something about prayers, but my 'conscience' decided it would be hypocritical since JWs only pray for someone to be converted. It seems cold, doesn't it?
Pat
(completely fiction, but shows how anything can be manipulated into wtbst.
reasoning).
by dave.
LOL Jan!!
And the WT reasoning was so clear! Why didn't we see it before??
Pat
has anyone ever addressed the incidence of domestic violence in witness families?
i am relatively new here and don't want to cover old ground.. thinking back, i can name multiple examples of households in each congregation i attended where domestic violence was evident.. i have an active protective order against my ex.
who is still active in the congregation he attends.
Peterstride and alamb,
Both of your experiences are very appalling--my sympathies and I'm glad you're both out of it.
I have a situation in my family but it's non-witness-related, so I'll keep mum.
Thanks for sharing.
Pat
one subject i've never seen addressed on these boards.
concerns violence - or rather the lack of it - in.
response to injustices within the organization.. this is a touchy area, i realize.
Metatron,
What an intriguing thought! It would surely make a difference. Drawing a lesson from history and someone else's experience. JWs are so indoctrinated to be 'sheeplike' they just go off df'd or da'd often in the same manner.
And the 'fight' would be things like talking to the press, trying to get anybody and everybody interested by being involved, WRITING LETTERS TO THE EDITORS OF NEWSPAPERS, etc.
I think I'm beginning to feel inspired to action by this!
Thanks!
Pat
how bout those jw's helping their neighbors?
of course a neighbor is only defined as a fellow jw..... i do not know if i can take much more of this hypocritical masturbation.
for immediate release .
Hi Messenger,
A year or 2 ago, I would have been so proud of the 'brothers' for this. Now, though I wouldn't use your term (ever!), it seems so 'tooting your own horn.' And, self-serving. It's not as though they help anyone but JWs.
For instance, Habitat for Humanity groups help poor people. Likewise, with every other group.
JWs only help themselves and possibly anyone who has strong potential for being a convert. Just sales people, only want something in return.
Pat
