For an interesting overview of the direction organised religion is going, this is good :
Posts by Phizzy
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22BABYLON THE GREAT IS NOT FALLING ANYMORE? (NEW LIGHT FROM THE ANNUAL MEETING)
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/rsbfa_7lqv4?si=muuxmgtll1n1ifad.
the watchtower’s babylon the great: a shrinking reality?.
so this latest annual meeting introduced a new idea about babylon the great, and here is the part from geoffrey jackson's talk we real need to dig in and consider it's ramifications..... so you’ve got to hand it to them; they know how to keep things interesting with their ever-evolving interpretations and, of course, those classic "adjustments" in understanding.
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30
Experiences After Leaving
by Freeatlast2024 ini am writing to ask if anyone cares to share their experience and/or offer advice for people leaving.
i was raised in the religion, and both my parents died when i was very young.
i recently stopped associating because my conscience no longer allows me to preach or support the organization.
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30
Experiences After Leaving
by Freeatlast2024 ini am writing to ask if anyone cares to share their experience and/or offer advice for people leaving.
i was raised in the religion, and both my parents died when i was very young.
i recently stopped associating because my conscience no longer allows me to preach or support the organization.
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Phizzy
"You can check out any time you like,
but you can never leave"...
That is how the J.W Org. makes it feel, and tries to enforce, and of course it is true what we went through, both good and bad, more bad, will always be in our memory.
But if you expunge every J.W teaching, and every emotion they forced us to feel, from yourself, you then become the real "you", all fears and negative emotions are gone, one emotion I keep alive is my total disgust and hatred for what the org. is and does, as I find that keeps me motivated to oppose their nonsense and evil machinations wherever I come across them, in the hope that some J.W may find the Road to Freedom.
But please do the work to prove to yourself that everything they taught, including what they want us to do, and not do, in our lives, is False ! if you don't put that work in, you will never be emotionally free.
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The Question of the "Great Apostasy" and the Historical Continuity of Christianity
by aqwsed12345 in1. the continuity and visibility of the church.
the true church must be continuous from the apostolic age.
there is no room in christianity for a "gap" or interruption of thousands of years during which true christianity ceased to exist and then was revived in the form of another movement.
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Phizzy
If the Ancient Church did not remain within the truth – as various protestant groups maintain – then they have a serious problem. They place themselves in the predicament of acknowledging the authority of an apostate Church that ruled on the Canon of the New Testament! How can they trust the Canon of the 27 books of the New Testament, if it was composed by alleged apostates of the truth? How can they be certain that those involved had made the correct choice as to which books are divinely inspired or not, if they had apostatized from the divine truth? If the Church had apostatized, how can they be sure that those people hadn’t chosen the books that were considered expedient and rejected those that weren’t to their advantage? If, on the other hand, they trust the Canon of the New Testament, then they –unwittingly- also trust the Church that created that Canon!
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164
How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?
by slimboyfat infor jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.
but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?
new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.
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Phizzy
I like this bit from the Article in Rivergang's link :
" If however, the Ancient Church did not remain within the truth – as various protestant groups and heresies maintain – then they have a serious problem. They place themselves in the predicament of acknowledging the authority of an apostate Church that ruled on the Canon of the New Testament! How can they trust the Canon of the 27 books of the New Testament, if it was composed by alleged apostates of the truth? How can they be certain that those involved had made the correct choice as to which books are divinely inspired or not, if they had apostatized from the divine truth? If the Church had apostatized, how can they be sure that those people hadn’t chosen the books that were considered expedient and rejected those that weren’t to their advantage? If, on the other hand, they trust the Canon of the New Testament, then they –unwittingly- also trust the Church that created that Canon!"
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164
How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?
by slimboyfat infor jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.
but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?
new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.
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Phizzy
I like this bit from the Article in Rivergang's Link :
" If however, the Ancient Church did not remain within the truth – as various protestant groups and heresies maintain – then they have a serious problem. They place themselves in the predicament of acknowledging the authority of an apostate Church that ruled on the Canon of the New Testament! How can they trust the Canon of the 27 books of the New Testament, if it was composed by alleged apostates of the truth? How can they be certain that those involved had made the correct choice as to which books are divinely inspired or not, if they had apostatized from the divine truth? If the Church had apostatized, how can they be sure that those people hadn’t chosen the books that were considered expedient and rejected those that weren’t to their advantage? If, on the other hand, they trust the Canon of the New Testament, then they –unwittingly- also trust the Church that created that Canon! "
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Atheist philosopher Philip Goff becomes a Christian
by slimboyfat inphilip goff, professor of philosophy at durham university, in the past few weeks has said that he has become a christian of a fairly liberal and perhaps somewhat heretical variety.
it’s been a long journey from staunch atheism in his teens, to questioning the basis of his atheism and a purely materialist conception of reality as a professor of philosophy specialising in consciousness, to now considering himself a christian.
he says it’s the result of coming to terms with the fact that atheists and theists both have good arguments and looking for a middle ground that accommodates the best arguments of both.
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Phizzy
He said that though he describes himself as a Christian, he is only "close to 50%" sure that his version of Christianity is true." He seems somewhat a rather confused Philosopher to me !
Goff, Philip (1 October 2024). "Why This Famous Atheist Became a Progressive Christian (Dr. Philip Goff)" (Interview). Interviewed by Bertuzzi, Cameron. Capturing Christianity.
Another Philosopher, Galen Strawson, in a review of Goff's Book has this to say :
"The question of "Cosmic Purpose" is genuinely difficult. I’m bothered by the fact that many of the arguments for fine-tuning depend on varying the fundamental physical constants (eg the charge on electrons) while holding the existing laws of nature fixed. I can’t see why engaging in this curious activity could ever be thought to explain anything, or support any interesting conclusion. And if – as Einstein and I suspect – nothing could possibly have been different, the fine-tuning arguments collapse, as Goff acknowledges."
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31
What made you look behind the jw curtain?
by Touchofgrey ini was listening to a lunchtime call in radio show about jws and the personal experiences of being disfellowshiped, and a former elder called in saying he was disfellowshiped for asking about jws and their involvement in the un in the 1990s ,and he just said look it up.. thinking that it was a made up lie ,so i looked it up and it was true even a letter confirming it from the un itself and that led me here and to jwfacts and further research into the history and teachings of jw and walked out the door about 5 years ago.
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31
What made you look behind the jw curtain?
by Touchofgrey ini was listening to a lunchtime call in radio show about jws and the personal experiences of being disfellowshiped, and a former elder called in saying he was disfellowshiped for asking about jws and their involvement in the un in the 1990s ,and he just said look it up.. thinking that it was a made up lie ,so i looked it up and it was true even a letter confirming it from the un itself and that led me here and to jwfacts and further research into the history and teachings of jw and walked out the door about 5 years ago.
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Phizzy
I was born in as well, but what got me started on my journey to find Truth, and hence on my road out, was the same as " notsurewheretogo" said :
" 607 BCE is not the destruction of Jerusalem. Once I researched it and fully debunked the nonsense the WT believes the whole house of cards falls down."
I was an actual student of the Bible, and interested in what it really said, one day I sat down and thought "Today I will sit and read the Book of Daniel, but as though I had been told nothing of what it meant, I'll read it as it is".
When I got to Chapter 4, I read the "prophecy" about the 7 times, and whoa ! there at the end of the Chapter was the Fulfillment !
It struck me immediately that you had to be a bit crazy to extrapolate from that a period of 2,520 years, so I researched 607 BCE, and found, guess what of significance happened in that year .......... Nothing ! Also King Neb. did not come to the throne until 605 BCE, and he really destroyed Jerusalem in 587 BCE.
Indeed the whole House of Cards fell down !
I gave an Elder a year to return to me as he had promised, to prove 1914 to me, he never called back.
I walked away about 18 months after the above Epiphany.
I found truth, which is only that which has irrefutable Evidence, I had Freedom of Mind, I could be the real me, and for the very first time in my life, I became lastingly Happy !
May all who are journeying away from the lies and Mind Control, reach the same Happy Place that I have !
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12
Thank goodness for the org's insights!
by BoogerMan inw52 2/1 p. 78 par.
7 jehovah’s theocratic organization today "when christ came for judgment in 1918 (1) he found some associated with this group that thought the lord had delayed his coming and they were oppressing their fellow slaves in christ.
these were cast off as the “evil slave” class.
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