Posts by peacefulpete

5

Jesus a "cult"?

by mpatrick in

there is a discussion on another board and we were discussing cults when a jw made the comment...

using the same standards that you guys are using... jesus and the apostles were a "cult"... .

i have heard other jws defend the term "cult" with the same illustration, so it definitely sounds like a parrotted answer from the wtbs.

peacefulpete

Christianity is a Jesus cult. If you disagree it is only because you believe it to be the "truth".

Edited by - peacefulpete on 30 January 2003 1:33:5

5

Rahab the Dragon

by peacefulpete in

isaiah 51:9,10..job 26:12-13...psalm 89:9,10...isaiah 27:1...psalm 74:13,14...psalm 77:16 and possibly other verses refer to a sea monster who is vanquished (split in two)by yahweh.

the contexts show application to creation and/or judgement of enemies.

i'm hoping this sparks a discussion.

Alright I guess I'm on my own. This motif of a God defeating a sea monster or the sea itself is of ancient Sumerian origin. Originally it was a creation story, it evolved into a story of rivalry between competing deities. A storm god verses Chaos the sea often portrayed as a sea monster. The Babylonian version called the Enuma Elis has Marduke the war god defeating Tiamat (tehom in Genesis meaning watery chaos is Hebrew varient of Tiamat). He splits the body in half and forms the heavens and earth from it's parts. It is an interesting study to compare the steps of creation of this myth with the Genesis version, they coincide. But this is another topic. The Ugarit version has Baal defeating Lotan also called Leviathan in Hebrew. The writers of the most ancient parts of the OT found this myth compelling and used it both in their creation story as well as a symbol of deliverence ie:new life. Even though by the time these verses were written the Jews had separated theologically from the Babylonians and Sumerians they retained elements of antiquity that betray their true heritage. From then on a simple motif of slaying a sea monster (Leviathan or Rahab; meaning thrashing, stormy) or dividing water served to symbolize a new start.This is why 4 times Yahweh divides the sea or rivers at the beginning or finale (Ex 14, Josh 3, 2 Kings 2;8 and 14)of a tale. This is the standard scholarly view not my opinion. Countless other examples of the Bible's incorporating mythological themes and imagery can be researched by anyone desiring to know.

5

Rahab the Dragon

by peacefulpete in

isaiah 51:9,10..job 26:12-13...psalm 89:9,10...isaiah 27:1...psalm 74:13,14...psalm 77:16 and possibly other verses refer to a sea monster who is vanquished (split in two)by yahweh.

the contexts show application to creation and/or judgement of enemies.

i'm hoping this sparks a discussion.

peacefulpete

Isaiah 51:9,10..Job 26:12-13...Psalm 89:9,10...Isaiah 27:1...Psalm 74:13,14...Psalm 77:16 and possibly other verses refer to a sea monster who is vanquished (split in two)by Yahweh. The contexts show application to creation and/or judgement of enemies. I'm hoping this sparks a discussion.

6

Types, Anti-types, 1st, 2nd, 3rd Fullfillments

by RubaDub in

is it just my distorted, critical reasoning and viewpoint on matters or has anyone here (i'm still new here) ever commented about why things appear so complex and complicated?

i mean is it possible that a lot of the things we read in the bible should be taken at face value?

of course there is a lot of symbolism in the bible.

peacefulpete

This method of Scriptura exegesis is hardly new to the world. For instance the Essenses (pre-christian jewish sect)saw prophetic type/antitype patterns in every passage. All stories of the OT were seen as prophetic allusions to themselves and their special relationship with God. This bouyed their unshakable belief in an imminent judgement and reward by God. In part this was likely due to the idea of time being cyclical. Anyway since the simple reading of the text results in little or no emotional impact this approach of "seeing" prophecy in every account enlivens the stories and makes them seem personally vital. An endless source of scriptural commentary/debate is created.

30

crelution or evelation

by showme in

creation or evolution?

first as a boy i believed in creation because i heard a preacher say it was true.

then i thought "well, maybe my teacher is right because of fossils and the recorded facts".

peacefulpete

Show me...Make the truth your own. This is a simple truism. No matter what the topic studied there is no substitute for personal investment of your own brain power. It is unfortunate that many here have formulated opinions without reading some basic readily available books on this topic of evolution. In this way they have not truly improved their lives beyond what it was while influenced by WT dogma. Too many are still being lead along though flimsy arguements and half truths that have emotional appeal. They may feel free to do as they want and have mistakenly assumed that this means being free to believe what they want. This power to delude oneself without judgement from others is an American epidemic and has enabled superstition and psuedoscience to flourish in recent years. Take control of your life and read respected authors. Then after you understand the scientific issues you may formulate opinions about the more controvertial. It is truly ironic that I quoted the JW line, "make the truth your own" as the environment of suppression and denouncement of opposing views within and outside the organization makes this very difficult.

An excellent book "CLIMBING MOUNT IMPROBABLE" by Richard Dawkins skillfully explains what evolution is and why science recognizes it as a fundemental truth. He writes for the public.

If someone wishes to believe in a God who has used only natural processes to create and maintain the universe, this is a philosophical perspective outide the domain of science.

Edited by - peacefulpete on 29 January 2003 12:39:33

11

Gnostics

by joannadandy in

i am writing to the people on this board who are way smarter than i could ever hope to be, there are quite a few of you here, and have some understanding of religions.. i just picked up a book about gnostics.

mainly because the back cover talked about william blake (who i already knew was gnostic) and john lennon being holders of this philosophy.

it's supposedly a history of this religion/philosophy.. i am only half way through the first chapter...the author is rather full of himself and is constantly reminding the reader he went to oxford and subconciously knew of gnostic principles his whole life.

peacefulpete

Elaine Pagels has written a book entitled "The Gnostic Gospels". It is very readable and addresses the influence that Gnostism had on what became orthodox Christinity. The roots of what eventually became called Gnostism were many centuries old by the time the NT was written. The so-called Mystery Religions (including Jesus cults) all shared common themes and idiom. Gnostics simply saw patterns in this ancient wisdom and reconstituted it into a new faith. To conceal it's influence upon what Christianity had become the Gnostics and ther writings were destroyed. Only those hidden away or indirect references have survived. Many of these references were by Christian apologists attempting to distinguish themselves from their Gnostic brothers.

15

Three Reasons Why the 'Truth' Isn't True (#1)

by metatron in

reason number one:.

while i cannot prove herein that consciousness survives death of the .

body, i can point out a solid arguement that you must have some sort.

peacefulpete

Read the book "Genome" it will explain in layman's terms how genetics shape us and dispells many myths. Nothing is mysterious only complicated.

6

gentile times?

by l3gi0n in

luke 21:20-28 (niv) .

20"when you see being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.

21then let those who are in flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

peacefulpete

The author writing after 70CE was imagining the tragic events f that decade would escallate until God would be moved to intervene in behalf of his chosen ones. This was why Christian writers often expressed conviction (in the form of psueonymous prophecy) that the end was imminent. This period of oppression, the gentile times, was neither prophetic nor a cryptic reference to ancient political turns. In context it simply refers to the time in which the author was living.

14

Gehena?

by ClassAvenger in

.

can anyone explain to me what the "gehena" is?

i've seen it all over the nwt yet i haven't seen it once in my christian bible.

peacefulpete

The Christians utilized Greek mythology extensively in it's theological development. The term Hades was the underworld where the dead as well as various demigods abided in anguish. Tartarus was below Hades and was where the top god Zeus banished the rebellious Titans (sons of gods)for eternity imprisoned. If the Christians had seen a need to distinguish it's theology from the Greek standard they obviously would have used different terminology. In fact so many are the borrowings from the Greek religious concepts that many reference works refer to Christianity as a Sect of Greek religion more than a branch of Judaism. Check your dictionary for Hades and Tartarus. As to Gehenna, the author was simply illustrating the torment in Hades (the underworld) that he deemed just for his enemies. To be burned forever. This understanding has led most all translators to simply substitute Hades as it was inferred. Sloppy but tenable. Tartarus is often translated Hades as well, probably due to ignorance of it's use in Greek mythology as distinct from Hades.

Edited by - peacefulpete on 29 January 2003 2:7:53

25

Who is the Alpha & Omega?

by edp81 in

.

who is the alpha & omega in rev.

who is the first & last in rev.

peacefulpete

To students of mythology it is no surprise to learn that these titles "Alpha and Omega" or the "First and Last" were applied to various gods. For example Apollo and Aeon were both called the "Alpha and the Omega". Krishna was addressed as the "First and Last". Jews and Christians alike drew from the religious reservoir of concepts and expression they were immersed in.