it has been discussed on this forum many times how many gospel elements were sourced from the ot and related traditions and recast as typological 'fulfillments'.
the same is true of certain sections from acts.
i recently ran across an interesting section of the talmud that certainly seems a good candidate for the inspiration for pentecost scene in acts 2.. recall that the shavuot or pentecost festival was linked to the exodus story of the reception of the 10 commandments on mt sinai.
This midrash was repeated:
P’saḥim:
Every commandment spoken from God’s mouth [mi-pi ha-g’vurah] was divided into 70 languages—so says the school of Rabbi Yishma’el, [who quoted the words of Jeremiah]: ‘As the hammer shatters the rock’—just as a hammer gives off many sparks [when striking a rock], so each commandment spoken by God was given in 70 languages.
the theme of my recent comment in another thread demonstrated how in some circles the 'word/logos' had become understood to be implied within ot texts that mention an angel or destroyer (in the case of ex 12).
the comment got no response so i'll repost it now as a springboard for a further observation:.
here's another example of the extreme personification of the logos/word from the wisdom of solomon (approx.
Some might find these wiki links interesting. God's emanations are an ancient idea that persists to the present.
ezekiel 18: 1-4 , “the word of the lord came to me: ‘what do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of israel: “the parents eat sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge”?
as surely as i live, declares the sovereign lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in israel.
for everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me.
like the one in tennessee, this one in maddison, wi, was done be a female.
the police chief points out that: .
“yes, i don’t know whether [the shooter] was transgender or not, and quite frankly, i don’t think that’s even important.
Right,Left,Up or Down....we have another example of someone filled with hate. If the manifesto proves to be genuine, she had no love for humanity, thought of them as garbage. A dark road to choose.
jesus is the creator god, but why did he create us?
what say you?.
God likes to play with clay.
another brief example of ancient traditions reinterpreted by worshipers of yahweh.
the book of exodus 25:.
31 ¶ and thou shalt make a lampstand of pure gold; of beaten work shall the lampstand be made; its base and its branches, its bowls, its knops, and its flowers shall be of the same.32 and six branches shall come out of the sides of it, three branches of the lampstand out of the one side and three branches of the lampstand out of the other side,33 three bowls made like unto almonds with a knop and a flower in one branch, and three bowls made like almonds in the other branch with a knop and a flower; thus in the six branches that come out of the lampstand.34 and in the lampstand shall be four bowls made like unto almonds with their knops and their flowers.35 and there shall be a knop under two branches of the same, and another knop under two branches of the same, and another knop under two branches of the same, according to the six branches that proceed out of the lampstand.36 their knops and their branches shall be of the same; all of it shall be one beaten work of pure gold.37 and thou shalt make its seven lamps; and they shall light its lamps, that they may give light over against it.. ok, so there is this strangely detailed description of a sacred golden lampstand, with 7 lamps in a strict formation of 3 branches on each side a single 7th in the center.
Kaleb...No offense intended my friend.
The reading in Exodus could have been better written (edited?) but the essential description is fairly clear. (Numbers is pretty brief) I enjoyed the midrash comments that depict Moses' inability to understand the instructions. The proposed visual aids offered him add a humorous touch. Not speaking Hebrew I don't how narrowly the word 'shown' in vs 40 needs be understood, but I can see the same word used in vs 9 in regards the entire tabernacle and furnishings design. That suggests either the word doesn't necessarily imply a vision or conversely the entire section was perceived as a vision at some point. Regardless, it was an entertaining midrash about the confusing description. Thanks for sharing.
Did they just get one from the heathens by then? Not likely since they just had that war with Antiochus IV Epiphanes and purged everything out of Judea that was not "Jewish."
The temple and the menorah were entirely "Jewish" regardless the ancient roots of the decorations and design.
By finding something that looked like what the Jews developed, you "found" a "menorah."
The associations with an 8th century Ashera specifically connected to Yahweh that roughly matches the description from 5th century Exodus, and that also bears a strong resemblance to the menorah design in use in the 2nd century BCE is pretty decent evidence. It also offers a reasonable explanation for the vigorously detailed vegetal decoration. The evidence seems just as persuasive as that used to connect the Christmas tree with Druid use of evergreens in their religious ceremonies. That was the point of this thread after all.
the theme of my recent comment in another thread demonstrated how in some circles the 'word/logos' had become understood to be implied within ot texts that mention an angel or destroyer (in the case of ex 12).
the comment got no response so i'll repost it now as a springboard for a further observation:.
here's another example of the extreme personification of the logos/word from the wisdom of solomon (approx.
That question of timing and influence will be debated forever. In many researchers' minds the Greeks (broadly speaking) are the beginning of the whole genre of the 'saga' and it must be said their reach and influence predates, by hundreds of years, the empire of Alexander through trade, mercenaries and migration...Philistines???
The general argument is that the increasing sophistication of Yahwist scribal theology motivated introjections into both rival their national saga (Primary History). The insertion of an angel or Word or Glory is rather clearly a secondary layer. The most likely period for this was the 4th-3rd century BCE IMO. Whether this is the direct result of Greek exposure (post Alexander) is speculative. Until recently I favored this idea, and many still do, but the underlying premise is that the Judeans (or Diaspora) were somehow primitive, less culturally advanced than the empires that repeatedly laid waste to them. That is just not supported by evidence. Wherever the Jews found themselves (Babylon, Peria, Egypt) they asserted an influence and found respect in intellectual circles.
Regarding the Logos terminology, that was the work of great Greek minds specifically. The record is pretty clear on that point. That does not mean other thinkers had not arrived at something somewhat similar. That is likely the case here. While the Alexandrian Jews especially, adopted the language of Neoplatonism, their message would have been familiar to a broader audience. Just how indebted the scribes that introduced the 'Angel of the Lord' (and Glory, or Word, or Name) were to the Greeks is impossible to quantify.
another brief example of ancient traditions reinterpreted by worshipers of yahweh.
the book of exodus 25:.
31 ¶ and thou shalt make a lampstand of pure gold; of beaten work shall the lampstand be made; its base and its branches, its bowls, its knops, and its flowers shall be of the same.32 and six branches shall come out of the sides of it, three branches of the lampstand out of the one side and three branches of the lampstand out of the other side,33 three bowls made like unto almonds with a knop and a flower in one branch, and three bowls made like almonds in the other branch with a knop and a flower; thus in the six branches that come out of the lampstand.34 and in the lampstand shall be four bowls made like unto almonds with their knops and their flowers.35 and there shall be a knop under two branches of the same, and another knop under two branches of the same, and another knop under two branches of the same, according to the six branches that proceed out of the lampstand.36 their knops and their branches shall be of the same; all of it shall be one beaten work of pure gold.37 and thou shalt make its seven lamps; and they shall light its lamps, that they may give light over against it.. ok, so there is this strangely detailed description of a sacred golden lampstand, with 7 lamps in a strict formation of 3 branches on each side a single 7th in the center.
I'm going to disagree on your assessment of the likelihood of antiquity of the menorah design. I do recognize the mythic aspects, such as the expansive united monarchy, but given the extrabiblical evidence for the worship of Yahweh (and Ashera), it would be more incredible if they had not had some kind of temple much like described, filled with cherubim, pomegranates, brazen bulls, sacred pillars and Ashera shaped lampstand. Maybe not covered in gold but the pattern and iconography are typical of the region. Whether that design dated to the 7th or the 10th century is not really important.
Actually, none of it is important, but for the sake of some here who think it is, I post stuff like this.
the theme of my recent comment in another thread demonstrated how in some circles the 'word/logos' had become understood to be implied within ot texts that mention an angel or destroyer (in the case of ex 12).
the comment got no response so i'll repost it now as a springboard for a further observation:.
here's another example of the extreme personification of the logos/word from the wisdom of solomon (approx.
the theme of my recent comment in another thread demonstrated how in some circles the 'word/logos' had become understood to be implied within ot texts that mention an angel or destroyer (in the case of ex 12).
the comment got no response so i'll repost it now as a springboard for a further observation:.
here's another example of the extreme personification of the logos/word from the wisdom of solomon (approx.
Lots of good stuff in that comment again.
especially this:
This means that a MALAKH YHWH is not necessarily a traditional "angel" that you think of in common literature or art. It merely means that God is coming forth in a different representation or form to send a message or word.
