Posts by peacefulpete

48

If Time were running in reverse would we know it?

by D wiltshire in

if "time" is running backwards i dont see how that we would ever know, perhaps some clever physicist could devise an experiment to find out for sure.. some theoreticians have suggested the reason the arrow of time runs from past to future is tied intimately to the expansion of space.

since einstein special theory of relativity we have come to see that "time", space and speed are all relative.

we now more correctly speak of "space-time" instead of just space.

peacefulpete

Wiltshire...did I make any sense? Are you aware that the model no longer postulates a collapsing universe? The fate of our universe appears to be an ever increasing rate of expansion accompanied by a corresponding entrophy of matter until a near static state of subatomic particles is spread throughout space. What follows is the question of the day. Do subatomic fluctuactions once again spark atomic interaction and self reorganization retriggering a big bang? I have recently heard that a heat death as I have described is being challenged based on some of the more exotic quantum physics, but I don't know enough of the hypothesis. Is there something you can add so I understand why the scenario I painted is wrong? Things change so quickly in theoretical physics. Thanks this was a fun thread.

Edited by - peacefulpete on 8 February 2003 19:46:38

Edited by - peacefulpete on 8 February 2003 19:58:59

108

Why is the Bible wrong?

by StinkyPantz in

this primarily goes out to other agnostics and athiests.

this week i got into two interesting conversations that i will admit that i was ill prepared for.

one was with a jw friend of mine who wanted to know why i thought jw's were wrong.

peacefulpete

My humblest apologies. It is valuable however to gain from the overview of researchers. I recommend you do both. Read reference works and when possible read the actual ancient texts themselves.

48

If Time were running in reverse would we know it?

by D wiltshire in

if "time" is running backwards i dont see how that we would ever know, perhaps some clever physicist could devise an experiment to find out for sure.. some theoreticians have suggested the reason the arrow of time runs from past to future is tied intimately to the expansion of space.

since einstein special theory of relativity we have come to see that "time", space and speed are all relative.

we now more correctly speak of "space-time" instead of just space.

peacefulpete

Elsewhere is correct of course, the essential physics that would cause the slow down and subsequent retreat (gravity,entrophy,inertia,etc) are still at work thoughout this process and therefore this change of direction is merely another natural expression of Newtonian physics. For this reason no temporal reversal ought to be expected. My point was that since this will never happen in light of new observations it is an acedemic question.

48

If Time were running in reverse would we know it?

by D wiltshire in

if "time" is running backwards i dont see how that we would ever know, perhaps some clever physicist could devise an experiment to find out for sure.. some theoreticians have suggested the reason the arrow of time runs from past to future is tied intimately to the expansion of space.

since einstein special theory of relativity we have come to see that "time", space and speed are all relative.

we now more correctly speak of "space-time" instead of just space.

peacefulpete

The observance that the universe's expansion is accelerating not slowing has lead to the discovery of antigravity. Much like dark matter it is only recognised indirectly but it has quickly gained wide acceptance by merits of it's explanitory power. Therefore theories about cycling universes and their innate characteristics have been revised. Time is in fact relative and this blows our minds considering the possible implications. But it appears that noone will ever experience the scenario you have described. Too bad it would be cool.

1

burdens

by A Paduan in

i've been leaning toward starting a series on biblical words - so here goes.

is anyone familiar with the distinctiveness of the term "burden" ?

if you see the ass of one who hates you, lying under its burden, you shall refrain from leaving him with it, you shall help him to lift it up.

peacefulpete

The Christians in Jerusalem under James leadership continued the law observance as Jesus was said to, whereas the christians dispersed into other gentile areas like Tarsus saw the Law as an obsticle to growth and true piety. The latter ones eventually won out. This was made easier after 70 C.E. when the Jerusalem group was dismantled. The writings of the Gnostic influenced Saul of Tarsus were then recompiled and fragments were sewn together to make a new version of Christianity. The book of Acts has taken the historical division within the Christian cult and rewritten it to make it appear that these deep theological differences were worked out during the life of Paul and James. It must strike us as quite implausible that Jesus would have left such fundemental teachings to be discerned on their own and a rogue "Apostle" working independantly from the main group in Jersalem would have been the one to discern it. This is called history revisionism.

Edited by - peacefulpete on 8 February 2003 15:29:29

Edited by - peacefulpete on 8 February 2003 15:32:49

11

1914 Generation

by starfish422 in

was just reading on freeminds; was asked by a mormon poster on another board, to give a brief history of jw organization and i came across the following (here is the link: http://www.freeminds.org/history/5_eras.htm ):.

"finally throw out their "1914 generation" teaching with the october 15 and november 1st, 1995 issues of the watchtower, which was one of their main playing cards.

but simon says, "it's no thang," while older witnesses know better.

peacefulpete

I'm not sure if my rewording helps but I tried. Or were you just being sarcastic?

11

1914 Generation

by starfish422 in

was just reading on freeminds; was asked by a mormon poster on another board, to give a brief history of jw organization and i came across the following (here is the link: http://www.freeminds.org/history/5_eras.htm ):.

"finally throw out their "1914 generation" teaching with the october 15 and november 1st, 1995 issues of the watchtower, which was one of their main playing cards.

but simon says, "it's no thang," while older witnesses know better.

peacefulpete

The 1995 articles were the result of an apparent division within the organization over the understanding of Matt 24:34. The study articles in the main body of the magazine contained a very lengthy and confusing discussion of the meaning of Greek words and the history of the Jews. The real import was however the definitions of the words "generation" and "pass away". The word generation was now simply to mean a group of people living contemporaneously, in this context, the wicked people who will be destroyed by God. Formerly they interpreted the word as implying a life span, and so saw this as a time reference. The "end" was to happen within a human life time of the fullfullment of the "signs of the end" which JWs believed began in 1914. Therefore 81 years had past in 1995 and yet nothing had happened. That had many wondering, as most people who saw 1914 were now dead. But back to the article...This new definition of "generation" no longer implied a time reference at all. In addition the definition of the phrase "pass away" was now changed from meaning dying of old age to being destroyed at Armagedon. To summerize the new interpretation: The author was simply saying that the destruction of the wicked people would not happen until after ALL of the things listed in Matt 24 happened. This required too much change of thought for many even in Brooklyn. The QUESTIONS from READERS at the end of the very same magazine offered a slightly different interpretation that retained the concept of a time reference. This aticle simply insisted that the word "generation" means an undisclosed length of time. This was because of emphasis on the phrasing "contemporaneous people". In other words: That People with wicked ideas would still be alive when God bring the end. This of course says little or nothing. It then effectively confused everyone, but most favored the second interpretation as this was less of a change. Subsequent articles reinforced the second interpretation so effectively that most JWs are not aware of the inconsistency. The real problem is that the author was not forteling an end of the world as we think of it at all. He was expressing confidence that the Return of Jesus to restore Isreal's glory was imminent, within his lifetime. This was the conviction found in many Bible passages. For example a few chapters earlier at Matt 16:27,28 where dispite attempts to change it's meaning as referring to a transfiguration, the context is clearly about "coming to recompence" in the lifetime of his Apostles.

The expression at 24:34 "THIS generation"(meaning those listening to him) provides the key to the puzzle. It does not say THAT generation(suggesting future peoples). So taken in context without later Christian reinterpretation the author was simply saying: The return of Jesus and glorification of his chosen ones will happen before those then alive died of old age. He was of course wrong. And Christian apologists have since sought ways to reinterpret those simple words: Truly I tell you THIS generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.

Edited by - peacefulpete on 8 February 2003 14:18:57

Edited by - peacefulpete on 8 February 2003 15:1:41

Edited by - peacefulpete on 8 February 2003 19:54:32

10

Why do you think......

by copsec in

so many people who come out of the borg are so depressed and angry and freaked out?????

i have been out for 7 years now and i am happier than i have ever been in my life and was from the very first moment i left!

the only reason i even go into ex-jw groups is i like to make fun of them and other exs are the only ones who understand what i am talking about when i make a funny comment??

peacefulpete

Cult recovery is a process. To deny this is to never heal. Do a simple word search such as "cult recovery jehovah's witness" or the like. You will find some very vauable insights into this process and why many go only half way. Sadly some of the search results are sites written by those who themselves are inolved with groups as cultlike as the JWs and seize opportunity to proselytize the confused and lonely. There are more objective sites however so do look for them. If anyone does he/she will not need me to recommend any one in particular.

The awareness of the noninspiration of the Bible is likewise a process, a second one, for those who left the JWs or other cultlike fundemental groups for reasons other than this awarness. In fact one of the insidious aspects of cults is the cultivated fear of being left to decide life's questions without a tutor. So even after physically leaving a Bible cult the person is not truly free to think s an autonomous individual as long as he/she has a book to do it for them. Mind control works on many levels. Those under it's influence are of course uaware of it's power on their thinking. Some leave cults without learning anything. They do not perceive that the real problem was a inconsistant application of critical thinkings skills. Some believe that if they retain a faith in a God and a book they now no longer understand, this preserves their value/ worth in the big picture. They often more agressively declare belief in these things as a defense from the cult members' charge of a wicked "godless"heart. Having no other means of understnding the world and establishing self worth they cling to the Bible in a spirit of defiance. Now they slog along unsure of what is true, hoping someone will tell them. If they only applied the same critical questioning tward this book as they had to tward the cult they would come to see the issues more clearly. It is perhaps a much simpler and swift process for those who escaped the cult because of study and who came to the recognition that the Bible itself is only a tool, a plastic book that has been used by cults to persuade and manipulate for thousands of years.

Life is good when we open our eyes to the beauty around us as well as the tasks before the human race that we can share in.

Edited by - peacefulpete on 8 February 2003 1:57:53

17

To Be or Not To Be - Like God

by Satanus in

that is the question, brothers and sisters.

often the verse about having to be perfect as their god is perfect, is repeated by persons of the bible.

does that mean to imitate only their god's perfect qualities, while avoiding imitating his imperfect qualities/actions?

peacefulpete

electromagnetic force is real. Matter's appearance of solidity is the result of these forces repelling each other when in contact. The newly hypotheszed and tenatively accepted dark matter has different fundemental properties that enable it to pass straight through ordinary matter such as walls without either being disturbed. I guess this means Jesus had a dark side. Thats my best stab at a joke.

16

Who Really Rules the World???

by ARoarer in

remember the tract that had a picture of a big scary looking hand with a grip around the earth and the title "who really rules the world?

" i never really read all of the words in it until last night when i was looking at my mail.

my husband laughed and said you'll never guess who wrote you a letter.

peacefulpete

Thank you Sirona.. that was an interesting thrad on 2 Cor 4:4. I have to agree that the simpler reding is that in which the "god" is refering to the giver of the mosaic law.(Yaweh) To whih I can add the use of the word aion often translated "system of things" at 1 Cor 10:11, where the Jewish arrangement and law are meant. This seems to me to furthur support the understanding that the "god" is refering to the giver of the Law not to Satan.