Posts by Robert_V

20

Questions for evolution believers - the geological column

by Qcmbr in

having had my bum fried several times in rather one sided evo arguements in the spirit of rapprochement i come with some difficult questions that i welcome evolutionists / geologists / anykindaists to provide answers - i'm not trying to prove anyones answers wrong - just to see what we come up with... .

what is the geological column?

where do we find it?

Robert_V_Frazier

You can see most of it in the Grand Canyon. A mind-bogglingly impressive sight!

Robert V Frazier

24

"They have NEVER lied"

by Robert_V_Frazier in

in this post over at carm, http://tinyurl.com/84ntg a jw from australia who goes by the handle "corvus" made a rather audacious claim:[the society] have never lied to, mislead or decieved anyone - they have made mistakes.. .

in response, i listed four lies that the society has made, three of which are easily investigated and proven to be lies.

1) the cover story that beth-sarim was built to house resurrected old testament saints who were coming back in 1925, when in fact, the house was built to get rutherford away from bethel.

Robert_V_Frazier

In this post over at CARM, http://tinyurl.com/84ntg a JW from Australia who goes by the handle "Corvus" made a rather audacious claim:

[The Society] have NEVER Lied to, mislead or decieved anyone - they have made mistakes.

In response, I listed four lies that the Society has made, three of which are easily investigated and proven to be lies.

1) The cover story that Beth-Sarim was built to house resurrected Old Testament saints who were coming back in 1925, when in fact, the house was built to get Rutherford away from Bethel.

2) The claim that the UN NGO membership was in order to get access to the UN library.

3) That the membership requirements to be an NGO had changed after the Watchtower Society joined up.

The fourth, that the Society is or contains the FDS, is hotly debated, but it is a lie nonetheless. Marvin Shilmer cited another, the Society's current claim that prior to 1914, the predecessors to today's JW's accurately predicted what would happen in that year; that they had accurate advance information about 1914.

I would like to know what other items anyone here can think of that the Society has ever taught in the past (remember, Corvus said that the Society has NEVER lied!) or is still teaching that must be factually considered lies.

My criteria for that is, the statement must have been made by the Society or its leadership at Bethel, it must be untrue as a matter of fact, and it must be known to be untrue by the person or persons making the statement at the time the statement was made.

Any other lies to add to the list? Even one disproves Corvus' claim, and even one disqualifies the Society to be or contain the FDS, but I'd like to see just how many we can truthfully say are lies -- not mistakes, errors, or bad guesses.

Robert V Frazier

11

Windchimes--does WTS have info?

by love2Bworldly in

jw
friends

does anyone have any info on what the wts says about windchimes?

i seem to recall they were related to evil spirits or some-such-nonsense.

Robert_V_Frazier

It got so I was almost afraid to put a vase of flowers or candles on the dining room table because doing such and so might have been a demon-inspired ritual someplace or sometime in the history of man.

Eating food is a part of the religious rituals of every religion (pagan and otherwise) that I know of. Somebody tell the Society, quick, so they can warn all good JW's to stop eating!

Robert V Frazier

13

Conspiracy!! Zygotes and Oocytes on the Governing Body proof!

by IP_SEC in

blondie posted a link to a short bio on the gb members and i noticed something i hadnt seen before.

these guys all have to be of the 'annointed' but jws say the calling to be of this class ended in 1935. whats with these very young new members?.

guy pierce-- 1934-- less than a year old- infant baptism?.

Robert_V_Frazier

And how come we can't get a count of who is already up there in heaven a hundred and thirty six thousand or what?

The count was well over 200,000 by the end of the 3rd century. As any Church history book will tell you. 19th and 20th century JW's never had a chance of being in the first 144,000. Robert V Frazier

6

Demons and the World's Largest Garage Sale, eBay!

by VM44 in

remember the watchtower and awake!

used to print articles with experiences of how people bought items at garage and yard sales, and after bringing them home, were bothered by unseen spirits or demons?.

well, what is the world's largest garage sale in existence?.

Robert_V_Frazier

Anyway, I told my JW mom about the suitcase, and she said "I'd never shop from there. You don't know who used to own it. It could be possessed."

Okay, assuming for a second that this could be true, why would it only be dangerous to buy second-hand goods? Couldn't pagan or "Christendom" manufacturers (which must surely outnumber JW manufacturers by thousands to one) install demons right at the factory? Seal 'em in with the shrink-wrap? Why not? Who hasn't heard of computer programs bought brand-new off the shelf that had computer viruses?

Robert V Frazier

42

How can girls guard against temptation in this sex-crazy world?

by ezekiel3 in

straight from the article friends... .

*** w61 12/15 pp.

767-768 questions from readers *** .

Robert_V_Frazier

I posted the article with commentary over at CARM: http://tinyurl.com/cm8mg I think this article is absolutely typical of the quality of writing and research of ALL Watchtower Society writings. Including their magazines, books, and Bible "translation". The banal idiocy of their writing is in my top ten reasons why I would never become a JW. If they were really God's organization, or even honest people who were committed to producing quality work that they want taken seriously, they would write better than they do. It's baffling. Their artists can draw and paint. Why can't their authors write? It does give one understandable reason why they never sign their names to their drivel: embarassment. Well, understandable, but not believable. Who can seriously imagine the authors of the tripe the Society publishes being embarassed by anything? They obviously have no shame. Robert V Frazier

5

If Evolutionists used Creationist tactics...

by Tashawaa in

if evolutionists .

creationist tactics:

they'd still be teaching piltdown man, 60 years after it was proven as a hoax.

Robert_V_Frazier

What do you mean, "If?" They use nearly all of those tactics right now, and worse.

They'd still be teaching Piltdown Man, 60 years after it was proven as a hoax.

Still teaching the peppered moth "proof", long after that's been proven a hoax.

They'd never have re-examined Nebraska Man, and would be teaching it now.

Still teaching you can make a giraffe by selective breeding of short-legged and short-necked animals.

They'd write their own interpretation of Genesis, and then point out the holes in it.

Read Asimov's Bible commentary.

They'd buy (or just make up) bogus theology degrees and discredit religion.

Okay, not too much of that. They prefer made-up or bogus biology degrees, earned without doing any research.

They'd use snake oil salesman tactics to make their debates more entertaining for audiences.

Yep, they do that now.

The audiences would be biology and paleontology majors bussed in and psyched up beforehand.

Standard procedure.

They'd use pseudo science to appeal to the masses.

What else have they got?

They'd demand Christian churches spend equal time teaching a pantheistic tradition, to allow for fair and even consideration among the congregation.

This one they haven't thought of yet, as far as I know.

They'd stop teaching evolution and just attack Creationism.

Been doing that for years.

They'd misquote Creationist literature to make it seem stupid and contradictory...well, no, actually, they accomplish that NOW, by directly quoting.

They are as fond of misquotes as anyone at ICR.

They'd mispele a lot of wrds, AND WRIET WITH CAPLOCKS ALL THE THYME!

Plenty of evolutionists do this on the internet. Ignorance and bad manners abounds on both sides of this controversy.

You couldn't get a science degree without signing a statement of evolution.

That's right, you can't at most institutions.

Research results would have to match

Come on, that would presuppose that evolutionists can do research!

You could win half a million dollars by keeping 500,000 animals in an for one year.

I think you meant to write "ark" in there. Don't know where you pulled that stat from.

They'd picket ' ' with signs showing which animals weren't from the Jurassic.

Jurassic Park, the movie, I presume? Plenty of evolutionists did criticise it.

They'd refuse to donate money to museums, and then complain about how their donations were being wasted on misinformation exhibits.

They did that to the British Museum when it wouldn't claim that all species are part of one big tree of life.

They'd print little comic books about evolutionary theory and litter them around playgrounds and Sunday School classrooms.

Yeah, they prefer to print their litter in the textbooks. But there is no end of cartoons, comic books, movies, TV shows, et cetera ad nauseum preaching the gospel of evolution.

They'd count all the different religions, even ones with no followers alive today, and say that there are hundreds of competing theories on Creation, Salvation and the Afterlife, as if that would discredit any individual religions.

They do that now, and seem to believe that it discredits Christianity.

Robert V Frazier

1

Today's Non-Sequitur comic

by Robert_V_Frazier in

.

http://media.fastclick.net/w/get.media?sid=5160&m=5&url=http%3a//www.ucomics.com/nonsequitur/2004/02/26/

the gb in the early, formative stage.. robert v frazier

Robert_V_Frazier

http://media.fastclick.net/w/get.media?sid=5160&m=5&url=http%3A//www.ucomics.com/nonsequitur/2004/02/26/

The GB in the early, formative stage.

Robert V Frazier

6

Does anybody here have the 1982 edition of You Can Live Forever?

by Robert_V_Frazier in

i'd like to get the complete text of page 179, where it used to say that the people of sodom and gomorrah would be resurrected, but in the 1989 edition, they changed their minds and said that these people would not be.

if possible, i'd like to see the paragraph before the change, the paragraph after, and all the text that is different.

i've found this much on the internet:you can live forever in paradise on earth, 1982, first ed., p. 179, paragraph 9. .

Robert_V_Frazier

Thanks, jgnat. That's just what I was looking for!

Sassy, I know the quotes I found were accurate, but I'm in a discussion with a JW on another board, and he's not even aware the Society changed its mind and changed the text of the Live Forever book accordingly. I wanted to document it for him.

Not under any delusions that he will accept it even so, but now if he ever comes across a 1982 copy, he'll remember I told him beforehand.

Robert V Frazier

6

Does anybody here have the 1982 edition of You Can Live Forever?

by Robert_V_Frazier in

i'd like to get the complete text of page 179, where it used to say that the people of sodom and gomorrah would be resurrected, but in the 1989 edition, they changed their minds and said that these people would not be.

if possible, i'd like to see the paragraph before the change, the paragraph after, and all the text that is different.

i've found this much on the internet:you can live forever in paradise on earth, 1982, first ed., p. 179, paragraph 9. .

Robert_V_Frazier

I'd like to get the complete text of page 179, where it used to say that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah would be resurrected, but in the 1989 edition, they changed their minds and said that these people would not be. If possible, I'd like to see the paragraph before the change, the paragraph after, and all the text that is different. I've found this much on the internet:

You Can Live Forever In Paradise On Earth, 1982, First ed., p. 179, paragraph 9

By saying this, Jesus showed that at least some of the unrighteous people of ancient Sodom and Gomorrah will be present on earth during Judgment Day. Although they had been very immoral, we can expect that some of them will be resurrected. (Genesis 19:1-26)

You Can Live Forever In Paradise On Earth, 1989 ed., p. 179, paragraph 9

It will truly be a grand privilege to be resurrected on earth during Jehovah's great Judgment Day. However, the Bible indicates that it will be a privilege that not all will enjoy. Consider, for example, the people of ancient Sodom. The Bible says that the men of Sodom sought to have sexual relations with 'the men' who were visiting Lot. Their immoral behavior was so extreme that even when they were miraculously struck with blindness, 'they were wearing themselves out trying to find the entrance' of the house to get inside to have intercourse with Lot's visitors (Gen. 19:4-11). Will such terribly wicked persons be resurrected during Judgment Day? The Scriptures indicate that apparently they will not. Yes, for their excessive immorality the people of Sodom and of the surrounding cities suffered a destruction from which they will apparently never be resurrected. -- 2 Peter 2:4-6, 9, 10a.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance,

Robert V Frazier

Robert_V_Frazier

Posts by Robert_V_Frazier