Rivergang

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Posts by Rivergang

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  19

  The World Today

  by peacefulpete in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been meaning to share some recent experiences that defy the usual tropes about the 'world gone to hell' or 'people now days".. as some of you may remember i was seriously ill for a while and had to close my business and shop.

  now, as it seems i have beaten it, i put up a sign again advertising that in a limited way i'm back.. what amazes me is how many times over the past 2 years customers and even competition have written and called to express their concern and best wishes.

  just last week i had a personal visit of someone who i thought of as a rival, come in and shake my hand sincerely happy to see me up and around.

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  Rivergang

  “the world is irredeemably bad and love and decency are things of the past”.

  There is a religious group who has been spruiking that one just about forever!
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  21

  What makes a cult (in the pejorative sense)?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  michael moore writes:.

  a cult is an organization that enslaves minds and destroys families using cult mind control.

  cult mind control involves orchestrated deception, social pressure, psychological abuse, and repetitive indoctrination (brainwashing) centering around an unchallengeable ideology enforced in a totalitarian way in a closed socially-separatist community setting.

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  Rivergang

  From the description given by Michael Moore, a cult would not necessarily have to be religious in background. Some of the more extreme political groups would also fit the bill - subjecting their members as they do to such things as orchestrated deception, social pressure, psychological abuse and repetitive indoctrination. (As happened to Allied prisoners of war who were captured by the Communists during the Korean War).
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  189

  What evidence is there for a biblical jesus?

  by Touchofgrey in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is there any independently verified evidence that a miracle worker called jesus existed and did the things that the bible said he did?.

  the four gospels were written by unknown authors many decades after the so called events, so can't be considered as eyewitness accounts.

  i think that there may have been a apocalyptic preacher who was executed by the romans and the story evolved from their.

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  Rivergang

  And that your imaginary friend has a imaginary sword doesn't bother me either.
  

  Very well said!
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  6

  MAJOR WIN FOR THE WATCHTOWER IN EUROPE ON THE BLOOD ISSUE

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  https://youtu.be/xhpnp8xtsk4?si=kq55iap5anhlehgd.

  so on the 17th of september the european court of human rights (echr) condemned spain over a case involving a jehovah’s witness who was given a blood transfusion during emergency surgery, against her will, this case was well documented earlier last year as a victory for the exjw community and a sign that european countries are turning on the watchtower, unfortunately this was a shortlived victory since the finally authority are no longer countries and their courts but nefarious organizations like the echr that over rule their decisions, and i'm afraid this is the same way is going to go if the victory in norway ends up in strasburg in the hands of the echr.. the case involved an ecuadorian national residing in spain, who was given a transfusion despite her religious objections.

  spain found itself in a difficult position when confronted with this case.

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  Rivergang

  No "freedom" is ever absolute. The question is just how far can "Freedom of Worship" be taken?

  A good example of this was seen in the "Cargo Cults" which once flourished in the Melanesian islands of the South Pacific. The "Pie in the Sky" teachings of many of these Cargo Cult groups had a lot of similarities with those of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Furthermore, there were times when "The End" that was "Nigh" became so "Close" that various Cargo Cult leaders instructed their followers to abandon their food gardens - this in a society that survived on subsistence agriculture. It was at this point that the colonial authorities usually stepped in and shut down the cults who were preaching such destructive nonsense. While this could well be branded as "denial of religious freedom", it did at least prevent the widespread disastrous famines which would have quickly followed. (Talk about "dying with ones rights on!")

  This very concept of a "Free Will" is a myth which was actually generated by Christian theologians.

  Humans certainly have a will - but it isn't always free. Humans do make choices, but these are by no means always independent choices. Nearly every choice depends on a lot of biological, social and personal conditions which you cannot determine for yourself. These conditioned are determined in part by such things as ones gender, biochemistry, genetic makeup, family background and national culture.

  Christian theologians would have us believe that we all have a "Free Will", but the Advertising Industry has always known otherwise!
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  17

  People who work free for the cult for many years

  by ThomasDam21 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  new to the forum.

  i have a question i did not get any feed back for on another site.

  what to these people who gave decades working for free in bethel when they are 60 plus years old.

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  Rivergang

  According to Raymond Franz in his work Crisis of Conscience, Nathan Knorr once even volunteered that the JWs “Don’t look after the welfare of the individual members”. He went on to acknowledge that the churches do a better job of that.

  Furthermore, the charitable institutions operated by many of the “Churches of Christendom” extend their help to persons who are not even church members. I myself have seen JW elders direct needy congregation members to such church-run charities. (A popular one being Presbyterian Social Services). This was in a small community, where word soon gets around - and in this case it very quickly did (in the form of “ Can’t you JWs look after yourselves”).

  How ironic if those former Bethelites have to now turn to the much-despised “Churches of Christendom” for their very survival . (After having for decades collectively excoriated such entities as being “works of The Devil).
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  135

  Rumour 144,000 literal number teaching to be abandoned at Annual Meeting

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  say it ain’t so!

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  in one sense it’s a no brainer because the figures just don’t add up any more.. in another (negative) sense it’s a no brainer because it’s been fundamental to jws since year dot and might undermine the whole thing?

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  Rivergang

  There is, though, the problem of rumours.

  A bit like the one which did the rounds a few decades ago now about the warehouse that the WTS was said to be building - specifically being constructed to store all the rumours in!
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  53

  Half hearted JWs compared to past generations

  by JohnR1975 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is it just me or has there been a massive change in jws of late?.

  when i grew up in the cult they had a real sense of urgency and would do an hour minimum, these days it’s not even ten mins before coffee break.. same goes for everything else, it’s half hearted .

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  Rivergang

  As WC Stevenson noted in his 1968 work The Inside Story of Jehovahs Witnesses “No other religious group would demand as much from its adherents, in return for so little”.
  
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  53

  Half hearted JWs compared to past generations

  by JohnR1975 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is it just me or has there been a massive change in jws of late?.

  when i grew up in the cult they had a real sense of urgency and would do an hour minimum, these days it’s not even ten mins before coffee break.. same goes for everything else, it’s half hearted .

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  Rivergang

  These days, they give an appearance of being what the South African Defence Force used to describe as "N.A.A.F.I"

  i.e. "No Ambition And #&ck-all Interest"
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  13

  Witnesses after Covid shut down are increasing their calls around my neighborhood

  by wozza in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi all , i just had another call by a an elderly jw ,let's call him ian.. only about 3 months ago i had a young jw call and trying to talk to him i had to tone it down a bit because he did'nt seem so theocratically bright as he only offered a tract and not much else , and i've had others call since covid.. so it seems around here they are making regular calls but not like back in the day when i used to auxillary pioneer where we would go over this turf every 1 to 3 weeks in the 80's.. but back to my caller ian ,on his own , but out with a group of jw's he was quick to get around the pleasantries and and so i interrupted him tactfully to slow him down.

  started with a bit of my history easing into the fact that i had my first contact with jw's with my soon to be mother-in -law who was an invalided jw ,we had many good talks about her beliefs in the early 70's.. at this point he jumps in and wants to know if i would want a study again because i told him that i once did a study with jw's back.

  i carefully steered him into telling me about those days ,what was he was doing back then.

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  Rivergang

  They have not been too active around where I live (in SE Queensland). It is so long ago since any of them called at my door that I can barely remember it. Their only sign of activity since the pandemic has been the apathy literature cart, which was operating for just one single day the other week. In fact, we now see more of the LDS than the JWs.
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  37

  NO SUPPORT FOR EXJWS DRAFTED IN UKRAINE

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/ulan2hhagz8?si=jpedzunzb5o_6axd.

  here’s a cautionary tale for anyone counting on past ties with jehovah’s witnesses to dodge conscription: they’ll throw you under the bus faster than you can say “conscientious objector.” a man in ukraine learned this the hard way after refusing military service and hoping his old religious connections would save him.

  spoiler alert—they didn’t.

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  Rivergang

  Personally, anyone conscripted should start shooting their commanding officers as soon as they are given a weapon.

  I finished high school during the days when this country still had compulsory military service, and the Vietnam War was still going. That was exactly the advice my Dad gave me, should my number have been called!