Scully

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Posts by Scully

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  7

  Any UK'ers or Europeans into Environmental Stuff

  by Celtic in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  or do you have any land that you own and your looking for developing a project upon such for income possibilities?

  put my farm diversification mind ideas generator to good use!!

  excellent management experience proffered.. anyone interested?.

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  Scully

  Dear UncleBruce

  would you happen to have any fairy penguins?? My daughters have decided they'd like to add some to our menagerie.

  Love, Scully

  It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
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  13

  happy memories of my father

  by refiners fire in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  something that happened with an ex dub friend of mine prompted this post.he finally wrote a letter to his elder father telling him how he really felt.i read the assorted corespondences.. in the letter to his father my friend mentioned that he could only remember 1 instance where father and son spent quality time together.. they spent an afternoon (1 afternoon)flying a kite down at the park.. that was the only pleasure incident he could remember with his dad.. i wept and wept reading that.

  for it reminded me of my own dad.. i could barely remember any pleasure incidents either.. my father and i went on 3 camping trips, when i was a teenager.. we did that together.

  all the rest of my memories were of him compelling me to do things i didnt want to do.. this causes me to wonder if this is a phenomena unique to the dubs.. no memory of quality time spent with your dad.

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  Scully

  My dad would do things with my brothers... we would go on camping trips as a family and he'd take us out fishing... we would go on a family outing to the beach with other JWs. We did not go to movies in theatres. In the summertime we did manage one trip to the drive-in movie when they were playing Disney's "Song of the South" and it was even more special because it was a double feature with "Cinderella".

  But quality, one-on-one time with my dad?? His idea of accomplishing that was to be our service partner on a Saturday morning, instead of pawning us off on the single sisters and brothers so he could work with one of his elder or ministerial servant buddies.

  Ahh yes, how wonderful to spend 2 hours in the freezing cold with your daughter (who was not allowed to wear pants in -30C weather), teaching her to pester the hell out of people in the neighbourhood with Watchtower literature and threats of doom and destruction! I recall with vivid pleasure how he used to remind me to be on my best behaviour in case we called on teachers or classmates from school, or someone from his office!!

  I'm going to plan to do that with my own daughters this weekend!!
  

  NOT!

  
  I think we'll go see "Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius" instead.

  Love, Scully

  It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
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  10

  I Am A Servant Of The Most High God Jehovah!

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  back in the 70's, that particularly self-congratulatory phrase became fashionable fair here in the uk.

  i remember my dear old dad trotting this out when her ladyship and i got married in '73.. talk about a bucket of cold water!

  a real 'spectre at the feast' comment if ever there was one!

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  Scully

  The looming of 1975 made a lot of JWs do a lot of stupid things

  My husband was "brought into The Truth™" in 1982 by a JW who had quit his job and sold his family's home ten years earlier, just 3 years short of achieving a full pension, so that he could 'serve where the need was great'. He had to work a building superintendent until he turned 75 so that he and his wife could have a place to live. He was too old to get another job, and had to keep doing janitorial work until he passed away in 1997.

  I knew someone who was so convinced that she was going to be destroyed at Armageddon in 1975, that she decided to get married so she would know what it was like to have sex. I asked her, if she was that bad that she was planning on being destroyed, why not just go out and have sex without dragging some poor schlepp into it... she said she wanted to have a nice wedding to go along with it.

  There were a group of brothers in the congregation where I grew up who built homes that were beyond their means, thinking that once Armageddon came in 1975, they would have a lovely new home to live in, but no mortgage. They really thought they were clever, until 1975 came along... and went....

  <sigh> the nostalgia of it all....

  Love, Scully

  It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
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  29

  Have they sunk to new lows?

  by duped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my husband came home from the grocery store yesterday (christmas eve).

  and said he saw a witness couple driving around the parking lot handing out mags from their car window.

  i mean how lazy is that?

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  Scully

  Proplog2 writes:
  

  I don't believe Scully refuted my argument at all. My main
  argument is that the premise for Christmas is false. It is not the
  actual birthday of Jesus. Scully has not produced proof that
  December 25 is the date of Jesus birth.

  It's common knowledge that Jesus' date of birth is unknown. DUH. That's not at issue here. However, it has been customary for many centuries to celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25. Nobody has to believe he was born on THAT day in order to be grateful for his birth. Even the angels in heaven celebrated his birth, and they didn't even need a ransom. But, I'm sure you will acknowledge, that humans do need the ransom of Jesus. So what's the problem with celebrating the event, regardless of what day one arbitrarily chooses to do so??

  After my main argument I made a sub-argument that Christmas is a grab-bag of non-christian (pagan) symbols and practices. This
  should be no surprise because Jesus didn't set up the celebration
  of his birth. Had he asked his followers to celebrate his birth he
  probably would have controlled the essential symbols as he did with
  the incorporation of unleavened bread and wine into the memorial of
  the last supper covenant.

  You overlook the fact that Jesus was a Jew. It shouldn't come as a surprise to you that Jesus observed Jewish Law by observing Jewish festivals, including Chanukah. Incidentally, there has been research that links the choice of December 25 with the Jewish celebration of Chanukah, in direct opposition to the Mithraic festival of the Birth of the Invincible Sun (Saturnalia), rather than using the date as a ploy to assimilate pagans into an apostate Christian church.

  By the way, Jesus also taught his followers to "Love your neighbours as yourself." I don't see too much genuine love among JWs; because as soon as somebody misses a meeting, they start gossiping about that person and making claims that the person is spiritually weak. When you can follow that SECOND law of Christ, then you can start nitpicking the details of everything else.

  The argument I believe you felt was so powerful was a kind of "You do it too" argument.

  Scully's response to my attack...

  
  Thank you for admitting to that and showing us your heart's motivation.
  

  was to accuse me of acting in a
  similar way by using a pagan symbol - wedding ring. This is
  actually a fallacious argument because it is NOT a rebuttal but
  instead a way of avoiding rebuttal. The fact that I may engage in
  a similar practice or thought process is irrelevant to whether such
  a practice merits our acceptance.

  Oh is that so??
  What you're really saying is that if the WTS says it's ok for you to adopt a pagan symbol or practice, then you will; and if the WTS says you can't adopt a certain pagan symbol or practice, then you won't, and you will condemn others for not bowing down to the Sacred Words of the Watchtower.

  proplog2? tell us what is the point of having a "Bible trained conscience" if you aren't allowed to use it?? Don't you realize that without 'exercise' it's going to get flabby??

  There is no logical way that my practices can absolve you of your own guilt for the same fault, nor does the behavior of another
  person or group constitute any logical justification for you to
  behave in a similar manner.

  Who decided that YOU had the right or obligation to judge anyone's guilt or innocence on any matter?? That's God's job, not yours, you pompous arrogant presumptuous blowhard. But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you also look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God;... So then each of us will render an account for himself to God. - Romans 14:10,12

  Scully picks this sub-argument because he has no rebuttal for the fact that Jesus wasn't born on December 25.

  Scully doesn't personally have a problem with the fact that Jesus was not born on December 25. The date was chosen arbitrarily, and the historical background, which goes even further back than it's supposed link to Saturnalia, is the Jewish festival of Chanukah, which Jesus, being a Jew, did observe and celebrate. Would you like to play with my dreidle? Come on baby, light my shammus!!

  And it still nauseates me to think that some think that celebrating the Birth of Christ on a day he wasn't born is the whipped cream on the hot chocolate.

  Then it should also nauseate you to think that the WTS picked October 1, 1975 as the date marking the completion of 6000 years of human existence. Would you like some dramamine?

  You know you are also free to have sex with anyone who is willing. You are free to smoke. You are free to take drugs. You are free to get stupid drunk. Basically you have always been free. And you
  are free to celebrate anything you want.

  Why, thank you. So nice of you to give your permission, Your Majesty.

  Another thing about wedding-rings...

  This really yanked your chain, didn't it?

  Scully is mis-using a general principle. This fallacy involves assuming that a rule has no exceptions.

  
  The exception I take to this so called principle is that the WTS claims it has the authority to decide what are exceptions to the rule and what are not. Most of us here do not recognize the claim on authority that the WTS makes for itself.

  Scully makes the unwarranted assumption that the
  principle about pagan symbols ought to be applied in EVERY case no
  matter what the circumstances. Scully is saying that under no
  circumstances should the pagan origins of a practice or symbol be
  considered.

  No, I believe what I said was: The MAIN question I have for you regarding this Watchtower article is this: The Question From Readers article specifically refers to JW females married to non-JW males. How is it that it's OK for these women to do all these things and not be referred to, as you so eloquently described, as "returning to vomit"?? Don't you think that's a tad hypocritical that a certain group of people within your ranks are allowed to do something while the rest of you are not?? What makes them SO special?? Does not Jehovah treat everyone equally?? If he doesn't, why doesn't he??

  The issue I am raising is that the WTS is permitting a segment of WOMEN among your ranks to use their conscience and decide for themselves what they will and will not do in terms of holiday observances, while the rest of you are supposed to watch from the sidelines and think it's OK for her but not for me. That's pretty hypocritical, to say that as long as she attaches no religious significance to the 'customs' and 'traditions' of her family it will be fine; whereas some of us who do not attach religious significance to those same customs and traditions of OUR OWN VOLITION, are "returning to vomit", as you called it.

  JW's believe that the context of a practice is
  important. Wedding rings are an accepted symbol of a persons
  marriage status.

  
  I have no quarrel with the use of wedding rings at all, or even of any of the pagan traditions that go along with it. But to say that it's OK because the WTS says "marriage is God's arrangement", does not make the customs or traditions any less pagan in origin. It merely means that they have been stamped with the WTS Seal of Approval. Is the WTS saying that Jesus' birth and subsequent ransom was not really "God's arrangement"??

  The context of Christmas symbols is a celebration Jesus never instituted on a date that is clearly wrong and chosen because it was a popular date to worship idols. JW's also keep eggs and rabbits out of the memorial of Jesus death.

  JWs also keep the fullness of Jesus' ransom out of the Memorial of his death. JWs also allow the WTS to insinuate themselves into the equation of Salvation. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. -John 14:6 but what does the Watchtower say??

  (thank you to ozziepost for supplying the quotes)
  

  "He [God] does not impart his holy spirit and an understanding and appreciation of his Word apart from his visible organisation." (The Watchtower, July 1, 1965, page 391)

  "Jehovah God caused the Bible to be written in such a way that one needs to come in touch with His human channel before one can fully and accurately understand it. True, we need the help of God's holy spirit, but its help also comes to us primarily by association with the channel Jehovah God sees fit to use." (The Watchtower, February 15, 1981, page 17)

  "Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." (The Watchtower, December 1, 1981, page 27)

  "The Bible is an organisational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organisation, NOT TO INDIVIDUALS, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah's visible organisation in mind." (The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, page 587)

  Is it any wonder then, that the WTS doesn't want JWs to observe Christmas (with or without any pagan attachments)?? Why, if JWs observed Christmas, they'd actually be honouring CHRIST JESUS instead of the WTS!!! God help anyone who would do such a horrible thing!

  Scully has avoided refuting my argument. Perry, you're a poor
  cheerleader. Let Scully defend himself.

  You're in the minority in thinking that, friend. Perry also did a fine job, you're the only one who thinks otherwise.

  Oh, and PS: Scully is a girl.

  Love, Scully

  It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
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  18

  Baptismal Questions - why the change?

  by teejay in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was baptized on march 17, 1974. on that day, i answered "yes" to both of the following questions.... 1 have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognizing yourself before jehovah god as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation precedes from him, the father, through his son jesus christ?.

  2 on the basis of this faith in god and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to god to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through jesus christ and through the bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

  -- may 1, 1973 watchtower, pg 280.

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  Scully

  Perry writes:
  

  Or, this may give some sort of legal control over future, errant elders who try to turn an entire congregation away from the org. Whole bodies have been removed before. I always wondered how the org. could do that since the congregation owns its own propery and stuff.

  Actually, I believe that has been "simplified" too. When the Quick-Build Kingdom Hall craze began in the early 80's there were certain criteria that had to be met before the WTS would lend money to the congregation to build new Kingdom Halls.

  First of all they had to purchase the land upon which to build. The amount of the loan from the WTS apparently was not allowed to exceed the amount paid for the land. (In other words, if the land cost $50,000, the WTS would only lend $50,000).

  Secondly, once the Hall was built, the congregation had to repay the loan to the WTS. Fair enough. However, it was "recommended" that the WTS be named the owner of the property (land and structure), with certain persons named as being "trustees" on behalf of the WTS. In other words, the WTS was recommending a $100,000-value donation of real estate to itself (using the example in the above paragraph).

  Third, even though a congregation may have paid off the loan to the WTS in its entirety, the WTS, being the owner of the property, would now be entitled to collect "rent" from the congregations who used the Kingdom Hall.

  Nice way to "simplify" things for themselves, don't you think?? I don't know how many congregations did and did not follow the WTS's recommendation to give ownership of their Kingdom Halls to the WTS, but knowing the sheeplike mentality of JWs, it would probably not be questioned.

  Love, Scully

  It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
• 
  18

  Baptismal Questions - why the change?

  by teejay in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was baptized on march 17, 1974. on that day, i answered "yes" to both of the following questions.... 1 have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognizing yourself before jehovah god as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation precedes from him, the father, through his son jesus christ?.

  2 on the basis of this faith in god and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to god to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through jesus christ and through the bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

  -- may 1, 1973 watchtower, pg 280.

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  Scully

  The Society claims once again that "simplification" was the motive behind the change in the question.

  As well, the following year in the April 1/86 Watchtower's Question From Readers it is written:
  

  Approved association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural [and even those unScriptural] beliefs unique to Jehovah's Witnesses

  The change in the baptismal question, it appears,

  a) simplified the ability of elders to disfellowship someone for the crime of apostasy (all you had to do with disagree with the WTS);
  b) simplified the work of their legal department to keep the WTS from being sued for disfellowshipping people simply for having their own opinion or interpretation scriptures;
  c) simplified the rite of baptism to include a non-commissioned sales position with a snake-oil publishing house and real estate conglomorate that masquerades as a religion.

  Remember, this was not long after the huge "cleansing" that took place in 1980 when Raymond Franz was disfellowshipped. They were looking for a way to prevent that kind of thing from happening in the future.

  When I was baptized, in 1980, I was dedicating my life to do God's will as he revealed it TO ME through Jesus Christ and God's Word and the Holy Spirit. Anyone baptized with the "new" questions was entering a legal contract with the WTS. Shame on them for cheapening a person's relationship with God that way!

  Love, Scully

  It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
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  14

  ANy ideas on ridding of dubs?

  by lydia in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anyone have any good ideas on how to keep dubs from constantly returning??

  they don't seem to leave the area alone with just requests and they are preying on those who live in a development that do not have the money to file a lawsuit.

  help!

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  Scully

  I once made a very large sign for my door that was similar to the No Smoking symbol (Red Circle with diagonal line across) with the WT Tower symbol in the middle instead of a cigarette. Underneath, were the words "Police Will Be Notified". I had it laminated and it looked very professional.

  JWs know EXACTLY what it means. They really don't want that kind of hassle.

  Neighbours asked me where they could get one!

  Love, Scully

  It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
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  5

  Types of People we loved to hate (Love less)

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there are always one or two outstandingly idiotic people in any cogregation.. there is always someone who never gets ill, needs only 3 hours sleep,.

  works fulltime and pioneers and never understands why others arent doing the same .. there always the hall big mouth who says stupid things to people like .

  "you look so much better now with that new haircut , you looked so old/worldly/ugly/fat whatever before".

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  Scully

  Honestly I think some of these people have such a low opinion of themselves that they have a subconscious need to tear good people apart in order to feel superior to them.

  Others, on the other hand, are just plain daft and are in desperate need for constant "W" marks for "Tact" in their social interactions. When I was 8½ months pregnant we were in service when one such "brother" remarked "Oh Sister C...., I just realized you're expecting. And all this time I just thought you'd gotten FAT." I swatted him across the head with a rolled up Watchtower. I blamed my hormones. It felt good!

  Love, Scully

  It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
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  5

  Dealing with mom.....

  by wonderwoman77 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  well today i spent christmas at my dad's, but when i got home i had a disturbing message from my mom.

  for you that know me, you know my mom has borderline personality disorder and is difficult to deal with at most times.

  i had planned on actually seeing her before christmas, but everytime i tried to call her she was not home, so i was not able to.

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  Scully

  wonderwoman...... now I know how you came to have this name!!

  Borderline Personality Disorder is very likely THE MOST emotionally destructive personality disorders known to humankind. My heart goes out to you. I have only had to deal with such people in a nurse-patient relationship, and I'm sure you could teach me more than I could ever hope to learn from textbooks and professional experience.

  I can only imagine how hard it is to distance yourself from your mom. Borderlines are notoriously manipulative and resistant to treatment. They seem to have no conscience, no moral capacity for honesty. They have been known to comply with treatment regimens so long as it suits their current needs for companionship and affirmation; once they decide they can achieve those goals elsewhere, the treatment goes out the window. Yes your mom is mentally ill and unstable, and in some respects is not responsible for what happens between her neurons. However, she is aware that treatment is available so that she can achieve as normal a life as possible for her to have, one where she can enjoy a decent relationship with you. Instead she chooses a path whereby she continues to hurt you. I feel sad for you, and pity for her. You are an incredibly strong person.

  I understand also the conflict you no doubt experience regarding 'cutting her out' of your life -- it smacks so much of the JW concept of DFing/shunning. However, in this case, her behaviour is dangerous for you on so many levels. And if you have children, it's just as dangerous for them. Being DFd for disagreeing with the Truth-du-jour of the WTS is one thing; keeping someone who is supposed to love you from abusing and manipulating you emotionally is quite another.

  Wish I could give you a huge HUG..... I know you need one!!
  Love, Scully

  It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
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  49

  Request To Write Governing Body

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am enclosing a copy of a recent letter that i sent to the governing body.

  the purpose of this letter is to establish clearly that our requests are simple and the purpose is to protect jw children.

  if you agree with the points stated i encourage you to print out a copy of this letter and write at the bottom:.

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  Scully

  ballistic wrote to FredHall:
  

  2. You're not even allowed to masterbate, so don't start talking about who can handle women.

  FredHall replied:
  

  And you don't know anything about masterbation.

  I guess Fred's hanging around with those Palm Sisters again!

  It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63