Posts by Silverleaf

3

Promise a young man that death is not the end

by outsider_looking_in in

jw
friends

taken from the guardian newspaper.

"could we get some otherwise normal humans and somehow persuade them that they are not going to die as a consequence of flying a plane smack into a skyscraper?

nobody is that stupid, but how about this - it's a long shot, but it just might work.

Silverleaf

Hi outsider,

Interesting article. While I tend to agree with the jist, it's my personal crusade to contradict anyone who puts forth the following:

"Those people were not mindless and they were certainly not cowards."

Correction, they WERE INDEED MINDLESS, SOULESS, HEARTLESS BEASTS. They were and are and will always be COWARDS of the worst kind. It does not take courage to do what they did, it takes monumental stupidity to believe that there would be a reward, even a spiritual one, for such an act.

While I do believe in life after death, or rather life after life after life, I cannot fathom how it would be possible for any thinking human being to believe that there would be divine approval of the acts these creatures committed.

Silverleaf
A pagan, but no longer a pacifist

someone here has the tag line - All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing ....

Sorry to steal that temporarily but that's how I feel.

10

What would Jesus Do

by joelbear in

jw
friends

i certainly see a lot of people who claim the title "christian" to be shouting out for blood, blood and more blood.. just let me to think of the question:.

what would jesus do?.

curiously onlooking hugs.

Silverleaf

Joel, I think he would be first in line to dig through the rubble and search for survivors.

Silverleaf

8

Haves and have nots

by joelbear in

jw
friends

i think it all comes down to the price you pay for having more materially than others.. i think, in the end, those people are pissed off because we live so much better in this country than they do in theirs.

it is to their leaders advantage to blame the u.s. for their bad lot in life.

if they didn't, the people would start examining the enormously rich ruling class of basically every middle eastern country who just allow their people to subsist or starve to death.. clever tactic using the opiate of the people and promises of paradise to get people to do the unthinkable.. it has always been thus.. hugs.

Silverleaf

Truer words were never spoken, Joel.

Silverleaf

26

A Different JW Viewpoint

by Nicodemus in

jw
friends

i have seen reference here to some of the posts on witnessesonline.com (wol) in response to the horrific events of yesterday, september 11, 2001.. please allow me to express a few different thoughts.. first of all, what happened yesterday was, just as president bush described it, despicable.

in making this attack, the attackers showed complete and utter disregard for human life.

those who commandeered the plane, knowing their ultimate goal, had no consideration for their own lives.

Silverleaf

Nicodemus quoted the following:

(Romans 5:8) But God recommends his own love to us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

I have to ask, is it REALLY death if you get to come back in three days?

Silverleaf
wishing all those who lost their lives needlessly could come back in three days.

2

JW links WTC to Tower of Babel

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

this quote has been extracted from wol and really shows the mentality of some within the wt movement.

how does it make you feel?.

according to abc news, the new york monoliths that were targets today were "110-story towers, the tallest buildings in the city and the fifth and sixth tallest in the world, collapsed in billows of debris following two plane crashes to their sides.

Silverleaf

Quote: >>My question...will this be the end of skyscrapers as they've become, edging closer and closer to the heavens, only to bow low to the earth when their defiance is exposed as hollow as the material they are made of?<<

In response to this I'd have to say, yes. If you believe that God is so frightened of human achievement and technology and that a tall building threatens His sovereignty, and that He is afraid of commerce, cooperation and technology, then definitely yes.

Silverleaf

11

other side of the coin

by spider in

jw
friends

perhaps i will be attacked for this thread, i am not sure.i am as shocked as can be by the terrorist atrosity perpetrated today.i have watched all afternoon and evening and still can't quite take it in.. i have heard the people involved described as evil cowards in the west.i accept this statement and as i have aleady stated deplore the action but i feel that the media only shows one side of the coin.. the pilots that commited suicide were certainly not cowards.they believed in their cause enough to give their lives for it.these, along with the many that orchestrated this event put a lot of time, money and sacrifice in to this.. this is the part of the story i am unclear about.this is the part which is not being explained - at least not to my feeble understanding.. why do so many of the middle eastern countries hate the west as much as they do.sure iraq has good reason but what about the others.. there are two sides to every story and as much as i hate what has happened i wonder what theirs is.why do they dance on the streets now?

america has bombed countries.in serbia to get rid of milosivich.they must have hated america then but this was out of a lack of information.. i do not believe evil exists - evil acts but not evil as an entity.it is all too easy when asked why atrosity is performed to simply answer - the person was evil.there has got to be more to it than that.

what brought about these murderous acts.was it the kind of mind control that was perpetrated on us as witnesses.after all, the witnesses would take delight in the coming armageddon when billons of people will die.. is this evidence of a similar condition?.

Silverleaf

Hello Spider, I had to respond to some of your points, please bear with me- you wrote:

>>The pilots that commited suicide were certainly not cowards.<<

Oh, ABSOLUTELY they were cowards. It takes much more courage to live, love and make a difference than it does to get caught up in the 'I'll go down in a blaze of glory mentality.' These creatures are the worst kind of coward.

>>They believed in their cause enough to give their lives for it.<<

Sorry, I don't buy that. They 'gave' nothing. They TOOK the lives of innocent people, most likely for the greater glory of something that exists only in their minds.

>>These, along with the many that orchestrated this event put a lot of time, money and sacrifice in to this.<<

Yes, true. They sacraficed their humanity.

>>Why do so many of the middle eastern countries hate the west as much as they do.Sure Iraq has good reason but what about the others.
There are two sides to every story and as much as I hate what has happened I wonder what theirs is.Why do they dance on the streets now?<<

Jealousy? Our way of life is a threat to them. Likewise I think the bitter truth is they need us more than we need them. That threatens them and frightens them.

>>I do not believe evil exists - evil acts but not evil as an entity.It is all too easy when asked why atrosity is performed to simply answer - the person was evil.There has got to be more to it than that. What brought about these murderous acts.Was it the kind of mind control that was perpetrated on us as witnesses.After all, the witnesses would take delight in the coming Armageddon when billons of people will die.Is this evidence of a similar condition?<<

I think it is. These people are brainwashed to believe that somehow their misery was all caused by the US. The information they receive is carefully controlled so that they know nothing else.

Please realize, Spider, I'm not attacking you. I think someone had to bring up these points and personally I feel a great need to vent my feelings of frustration and helplessness. Thanks for providing the venue.

Silverleaf

6

What if.................

by Ranchette in

jw
friends

what if it turns out that these terrorist attacks came from some of our own citizens?.

this has been such a terrible thing and every one seems to be focused.

on the middle east.. has any one else considered this possibility?.

Silverleaf

This is a valid point, Ranchette. I heard someone on one of the news channels saying this very thing. The speculation was that there must have been some Americans involved, if only to help people circumvent security. This was not the fault of some overworked, underpaid baggage checker who didn't bother to look closely enough at someone's luggage. Those involved had to have planned this for months or maybe years to get the timing right, and they had to have help getting around security, possibly planting bombs on the planes and getting non-metal weapons aboard. Likewise, anyone who has seen the footage of the second plane veering toward the WTC in mid-flight can see that there was someone deliberately flying the plane, it was not a coincidence. Whoever was in that cockpit knew exactly what they were doing and how to do it. I think it's highly likely that they had inside help.

Silverleaf
still numb, still angry

34

Religious Fanatacism

by drahcir yarrum in

jw
friends

if there was ever a blatant display of the dangers of religious fanatacism, this is it.

the hi-jackers of the airliners that crashed today no doubt thought they'd immediately be sitting next to allah this-afternoon.

Silverleaf

Religion - the opiate of the masses. The source of greatest evil.

Silverleaf
Grieving for the souls lost today, and for all who are suffering because of Religious Fanatacism.

17

Evolutionary Path

by msil in

jw
friends

as one of the knowledge-seekers who has not had the means or opportunity to do a lot of research i have benefitted greatly from the work of alan, jan and some some others.. i have a question concerning the different "paths" which are followed on the way "out" of the dubs.

how many paths are there?

how does one find the questions to ask - without getting stuck in a direction?.

Silverleaf

Hello msil!

Your post touched a cord with me - and although I have never been a JW I do know how you feel on this one, especially when you say:

>>I am still at a "I have no clue" stage. I have no idea what to believe, where we came from, does God exist or how to even begin reconciling these things in my own mind. As I have posted previously I find myself as an agnostic right now but I do not even know what questions to ask? <<

I spent many years feeling that way and all I can say is, don't sweat it. Really. If you don't know what to ask, don't ask anything. Information is all over the place, just let it flow around you and pick up what looks interesting and examine it further, ignore that which does not 'speak' to you. Just existing for a time is fine. If you've recently left the org [I'm sorry if you posted this info - I don't know your history] but if you have, then you need time to just be. What to believe or not believe will sort itself as time goes on. As Sixofnine says just enjoy your life -

You asked: How many paths are there?
About 6 billion. [Seriously]

What are the stages along the way for each?

I'm not sure, but I think some of them are: Fear, Confusion, Questioning, Voracious consumption of information, Formulation of ideas...consumption of more information, reformulation of ideas, more confusion, more consumption of information, and enlightenment.

Is it totally different for everyone?

Yes. The journey, that is. I think sometimes the stages we go through are similar.

I hope this helps. Just remember you're not alone in not knowing.

Silverleaf

17

Do you have to be part of organized religion?

by trumind in

jw
friends

ok. this is my first thread and i am very interested to see the kinds of responses i get.

my question to you all is do you beleive you have to be a member of some type of organized religion in order to have god's approval?

i was raised in jw household, never baptized.

Silverleaf

Welcome to the board, trumind! You pose an interesting question.

My response may not be exactly what you're looking for, but here it is anyway:

You wrote:
>>My question to you all is do you beleive you have to be a member of some type of organized religion in order to have God's approval?<<

My response is: Absolutely not. In fact my personal belief is just the opposite. Of course, I'm Pagan, and while Pagans can and do worship in groups and belong to organizations at times, the general idea is that one's relationship with God/Goddess or however you see the divine is not a group project, it's a one on one relationship that does not know the boundaries of church walls or pre-written rules. We each forge our own relationship with our creator on individual terms and that relationship cannot be designed for us by someone else any more that our relationship with our human parents can or should be dictated by a third party.

You also asked: >>do I have to be a part of an organization to have Jehovah's love?<<

And in response I can only ask,[hypothetically] if you have siblings, do your parents only love you as a group or do they love you as individuals? [If you don't have siblings a better example might be, do you think your creator can find an individual tree in the forest? Can he see an individual soul among billions? If so, then the answer to your question has to be no.

Just my humble opinions, blessed be and good to meet you, trumind!

Silverleaf