Posts by gingerbread

35

Critical Differences: JW's Today Vs The Past

by metatron in

jw
friends

jehovah's witnesses have always been a fringe, anti-intellectual movement, almost by definition.

there is nothing new about faddish health concerns, attitudes that ignore history and science or even beliefs that defy common sense ( false prophecy for what, 130+ years?).

however, there are two differences with jw's of the past that will prove critical for the survival of the organization today.. 1) poor financial conditions - in the past, it was possible to hold all sorts of nonsensical beliefs and still be a functional member of the human race, generally.

gingerbread

@ Old Goat "The Watchtower thinks you're stupid". Right you are sir!

The WT organization has cultivated a population of obedient, mindless servants who look to them for understanding of all world events.

The leadership crafts the blinders and puts it on the local elders (who humbly kneel to accept this resposiblity with honor). The elders in turn impose this on their own families and the members of the congregation. Parents imitate this 'correct' behavior modification method on their children.

Worship the Governing Body. Worship the Mother Organization. Parents "give your children up to WT's Moloch".

ginger

35

Critical Differences: JW's Today Vs The Past

by metatron in

jw
friends

jehovah's witnesses have always been a fringe, anti-intellectual movement, almost by definition.

there is nothing new about faddish health concerns, attitudes that ignore history and science or even beliefs that defy common sense ( false prophecy for what, 130+ years?).

however, there are two differences with jw's of the past that will prove critical for the survival of the organization today.. 1) poor financial conditions - in the past, it was possible to hold all sorts of nonsensical beliefs and still be a functional member of the human race, generally.

gingerbread

The obvious change in the WT mission over the past three decades is from outward looking proselytizing approach to an emphasis on inward looking control methods.

Field service is a monthly obligation to maintain the status of being viewed as 'good association'.

Full time Pioneering is no longer about bringing in individuals and families to the the point of baptism; but rather "how Pioneering benefits you spiritually".

The focus of this religion has changed from 'how we can share the good news with our neighbors' to how the members need to obey and support the Organizational structure.

ginger

15

Need an ex-elder or someone who knows

by Roberta804 in

it has been a long time since i have been here, but i need you guys now.

my mother-in-law is on her death been; most likely will not make it though the night.

my husband and i have sat with her for the past two days, she is totally unconcious.

gingerbread

Roberta -

Remember that dealing with the death of a loved one is traumatic on most levels. By way of your description, it sounds as if the family may have it's greater than fair share of disfunction.

Without knowing all of the family history, remember that this is their mother. The last word on matters for funeral arrangements and what remains of the estate falls on the natural children. Sometimes it's best to keep out of this discussion - with this being your mother-in-law.

Also remember that people don't choose to become 'drunks'. They drink heavy or become alcoholics because they have unresolved problems in their lives. I would suggest that you keep this negative side of their personalities out of your mind during this stressful time.

Death can divide families. It can also provide the opportunity to mend emotional fences, to apologize, to forgive and to support one another.

ginger

15

Need an ex-elder or someone who knows

by Roberta804 in

it has been a long time since i have been here, but i need you guys now.

my mother-in-law is on her death been; most likely will not make it though the night.

my husband and i have sat with her for the past two days, she is totally unconcious.

gingerbread

They won't hold the funeral in the Kingdom Hall.

A 'brother' can give the funeral talk at a funeral home - maybe someone that the family is still aquainted with. This would be seen as an opportunity to 're-ignite' the family back into JW activity.

Prepare for shunning if you're disfellowshipped...or love bombed if you quietly went inactive 30 years ago.

ginger

43

Is it all about the money?

by Laika in

often on this forum there are posts about how the gb are obsessed with money and some people here often suggest this impacts every decision the gb makes i.e.

on my holiday thread it was suggested jws aren't allowed to celebrate holidays as it means spending money on presents that they want for themselves.. i however, do not think this is at all true.

the society rarely talks about money and as a percentage of income i think the vast majority of jws contribute a very small amount simply because the society rarely talk about it.. obviously money is important to the society in the sense that they couldn't run a major organisation without it, so they have to ask for it at times and factor it in to some of their decision making, but actually the gb live quite frugally and seem to worry much more about clinging to their authority and power than getting rich.. my controversial suggestion of the day is that saying the gb are obsessed with money must make us look silly to lurkers.. what does the jwn intellegentsia think then?.

gingerbread

WT's Governing Body is like the man behind the curtain operating the "Wizard" - the non-questioning JW members and the GB believe that the Org. is really Jehovah God. They believe their own fantasy and will maintain it's existence at all costs.

The individual GB lives as a volunteer 'minister' - they don't live like the religious super-rich. Oh yeah, they wear a nice suit and a visit the Branches around the world, but they're not living the highlife. They live off of handouts and favors.

The investments, real estate sales and building construction might be taken - by the average, working class citizen - as a sign that the WT is LOADED...

The strength of the financial position of the Org. is tenuous - it can't afford to lose court cases or keep aging Brooklyn properties up to NYC codes forever. The corp. is downsizing or "streamlining"... to save itself.

ginger

41

I NEVER Hear A JW Talk About Never Dying & Living Forever In Paradise Anymore!

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was raised with this belief, that we would never die and actually make it into the "new system".

mu faithful jw aunt still talked about my mother (her sister) and her walking together into the great tribulation--- and never die at all!

she spoke of that 2 days before she passed away.. i believe most witnesses expect to die and then get resurrected.

gingerbread

So many assemblies are filled with elderly long-term Witnesses. These attend because that is their life's routine. Their children attend out of obligation. Their grandchildren are absent.

The older ones in the congregations sit quietly during studies...or give the obligatory single answer. Desperate, aging pioneers shuffle around in service. Parents and grandparents who did it 'right' according to the Watchtower's guidance - but are now left with disfunctional familial relationships, hard feelings, resentment, depression, stress and chronic physical illness.

ginger

35

Petty Gambling

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

according to the shepherd book.... .

the elders do well not to involve themselves in what individuals do with regard to petty gambling solely for entertainment.

they may need to give counsel if this becomes a cause of stumbling for others or affects the spirituality of the individual or the congregation.-w02 11/1 p. 31.. .

gingerbread

Another prime example of Watchtower pharisaical rule making.

It's okay for guys to have sideburns....but only "down to here".

A little 'accidental' viewing of soft porn is okay...if you don't do it all the time.

The Watchtower Society has been active in the stock market since the 1920's - according to two old timers I knew from Rutherford, NJ. Of course they won't call that gambling ... it's an investment i.e. making money off of your donations.

I told this to a long time elder in our cong. and he said "that's a lie. 'We' don't play the stock market".

But, by god, if you have a game at home you better keep score with a pencil - one or two beers max and forget about 'luck'.

ginger

44

Newcomers to TTATT: Beware of "New Study Mode"!

by Londo111 in

jw
friends

weve all heard it.

a person starts studying with jehovahs witnesses and love what they are learning so much that they cant stop talking about it.

bubbling with enthusiasm, they spill everything they are learning with their friends and family...or anybody who will listen.

gingerbread

Becoming aware of the realities of the Organization, it's history and the origins of our beliefs is a very emotionally charged situation.

That opens up the danger of spreading the 'new' truth. I rattled the cages of a few family members in the beginning ... now I accept that everyone has to do this on their own.

Stopping the thought and behavior patterns I learned growing up as a Witness is the most difficult thing to accomplish.

ginger

126

This is my first post

by Make Lemonade in

i wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.

there are resources here that are deep.

like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?

gingerbread

Your background is much like our parents - young and hoping to change the world when they found 'the truth'. This religion dovetailed right into their hopes and dream. I was in grade school when 1975 approached - I was worried that I would never get to go to high school.

Over the years our parents have changed their outlook on the organization. My father in law asked me casually a few weeks ago if I ever read jwfacts.com. I about fainted... until he said he and the wife had been looking at it and they are pretty upset about what they've realized. They moved to where the 'need was greater' in 1973.

ginger

24

The Organization is expanding so much........

by DATA-DOG in

...that district overseers are now being used as circuit overseers!!

that was a comment at the wt study program.

another great comment was this: " you can go to bethel and have zero skills.

gingerbread

Confirmation bias in action !

At this point I do feel pity for these folks. They really believe this stuff....

ginger