divorce has always been a tricky thing in the watchtower world and has been subject of many articles in the literature.
for a year - from january 1972 until december the same year, "christian" husbands could technically screw anything with a pulse in the animal world without giving his spouse a "biblical" reason to divorce him.
the only thing he had to be careful about if having sex with humans - men or women was to use the "rear entrance".
This always makes me laugh: So from February '72 until December, if some poor unsuspecting wife came home and caught her husband in a torrid threesome with another guy and goat, she would have no scriptural out.
(And Freddie once testified in court that Joe Hobah was the editor of the Watchtower. Good ole Joe should really take some time and make up his mind before he puts it in print.)
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i got an original 1/1/89 wt - which says that the end would come before 2000 - before they changed it in subsequent bound volumes and cd-rom w/out telling anyone.. i also got a 1969 (purple cover) kingdom interlinear.
it is the one with the blatant mantey misquotes - you know - the ones that he fired off a letter regarding and demanded they remove mention of him and a public apology.. just thought i would share .... -ithinkisee
I went to "quotes" site and perused the "trumpet blast" section. That's some good shit there
Undercover,
The Society really stepped into it when they tied such specific events to propehcy. But I expescially like those Revelation interpretations, from the Babylon book and more recent ones, like the Climax book. It doesn't get much air time here, but in my mind, it was Freddie's second-greatest bungle.
They hang themselves because they tie current beliefs to the old ones - because they still hold those truths were presented as a fulfillment of prophecy. It makes the old light stick to them like fly paper.
the gb members believe that they are an "elite of the elite" class (the cream of the cream as it were, the best of the faithful remanent)that after death they will go to heaven with an immortal spiritual body where they will be granted to enter heavenly jerusalem and rule with christ for 1000 years in unimaginable glory.
i believe that they are being far too optimistic and that something very different awaits them in the future.
if you had the opportunity to object to them receiving such a lofty status what would you have to say to justify this position, and what do you propose they really deserve to receive?
Good one Richie - from one clay shooter to another.
I had a conversation with a dubbie once that spouted the 'can't go beyond the things written' excuse when confronted about the child abuse scandals. He said, referring to the investigation when they cannot get two eye witnesses, 'there would be no more we could do,' and finally, 'we must let Jehovah handle it.'
I asked him to look forward to a reckoning with the most high, as he went for his heavenly reward, "How are you going to answer God when he says, "I did handle it. That child came to you. I put you there to handle it." I don't think they get in.
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i got an original 1/1/89 wt - which says that the end would come before 2000 - before they changed it in subsequent bound volumes and cd-rom w/out telling anyone.. i also got a 1969 (purple cover) kingdom interlinear.
it is the one with the blatant mantey misquotes - you know - the ones that he fired off a letter regarding and demanded they remove mention of him and a public apology.. just thought i would share .... -ithinkisee
Well, Michelle, it just follows:
The third Trumpet Blast of Revelation was the Columbus Ohio 1924 false-a-palooza! You see because of JWs' preaching, people have realized that clerical teachings are 'spiritual poison' - Wormwood, if you will.
Once again, using Quotes site: http://quotes.watchtower.ca/trumpet_blasts.htm referencing "Revelation, its Grand Climax at Hand" pp. 136-138.
Remember, that if the Society has not published New Light on the subject, then the most recently-published interpretation stands. They STILL believe this falderal. WT literature gems indeed.
Does anyone have one of those handy? I think it was published in the early 80's.
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i got an original 1/1/89 wt - which says that the end would come before 2000 - before they changed it in subsequent bound volumes and cd-rom w/out telling anyone.. i also got a 1969 (purple cover) kingdom interlinear.
it is the one with the blatant mantey misquotes - you know - the ones that he fired off a letter regarding and demanded they remove mention of him and a public apology.. just thought i would share .... -ithinkisee
Undercover and Myelaine:
I may have been a bit confused. I remembered it was an outpouring bowls. And I'm gonna check my 1963 "Babylon the Great has Fallen ... " book when I get home Friday. But according to Quotes and the more recent Revelation book, it seems that it was actually a Trumpet Blast
But I did find this over at Quotes' site http://quotes.watchtower.ca/trumpet_blasts.htm:
2. 1923 Los Angeles, California: The public talk, "All Nations Now Marching to Armageddon, but Millions Now Living Will Never Die," called on peace-loving "sheep" to abandon the death-dealing sea of humanity.
That is an excerpt from "Revelation, its Grand Climax at Hand". Not only is the "Millions Now Living" thing a pile-o-false prophecy, but they STILL claim that pronouncing it in 1923 was one of the Tumpet Blasts. They STILL claim that that false prophecy was fulfillment of another prophecy. ... so God fulfills prophecy by lying to the nations.
I consider that a gem.
i think that it works quite well.. a 50 - 50 split between 'postates and and ordinary folk at fests does have some distinct advantages imho.. plus, the 35 + never beens at the wsm fests all now know about jw's.
they know that there's more to being a dub than not having a blood transfusion.
they've met the 35 + ex's in a social situation and know all about shunning and family splitting.
I brought my wife to one in in Vancouver, Wash. a couple years ago. I tried to prepare her for it. She is pretty affable, and I didn't spend much time on it. She knew much of the more ludicrous teachings and practices, and she was not going to have any difficulty with the variety of people.
It was a nice afternoon at DakotaRed's place, with about 20 to 25 people. She was particularly amazed at the stories of intra-familial shunning. Especially at a story of a former City Overseer that left over a combination of conscience issues including child abuse and a convention parking lot scandal. When I heard my wife relate how his own son won't speak to him or let him see his grandchildren, I realized that she finally got it - that it was much more than silly people doing silly things.
She did get taken aback at one point. Someone brought up mastubation in open discussion. In that mixed company, many of whom were new aquaintances, we were both uncomfortable. Aftwerward, I explained what a big deal it is to JWs and that the open discussion seemed to be part of the healing process. I would suggest preparing 'never beens' for that one.
finally, the dubs pried themselves away from the coffee shop this morning and 'worked' my neighborhood.
i saw them coming so i had to decide what topic to discuss.
well after the intro, i decided to explain, that yes i have read the bible, and i feel the god portrayed in it is very brutal and cruel to his creation.
(Because I am bored at work today.)
SwordOfJah replied with an excerpt from the Insight book:
In view of all of this, it is clear that the opinion held by some Bible critics that the destruction of the Canaanites by Israel is not in harmony with the spirit of the Christian Greek Scriptures does not accord with the facts, as a comparison of such texts as Matthew 3:7-12; 22:1-7; 23:33; 25:41-46; Mark 12:1-9; Luke 19:14, 27; Romans 1:18-32; 2 Thessalonians 1:6-9; 2:3; and Revelation 19:11-21 will demonstrate.
So, FreeWilly,
Tell you what, bring this up yourself. You see, I looked up all those scriptures they cited at the bottom. They throw that slew-o-scripture hoping no one will look any further. Guess what, those passle-o-passages do NOT support and accord between the Greek and the Hebrew texts.
It is amazing how often those long rosters-o-references have no scripture that supports the point at hand. Often, it contains scriptures that teach the exact opposite of what they are trying to convey.
Not one of those citations supports, or somehow accords with, any wholesale slaughter of whole peoples. It does not support the slaughter if it were for trespassing on promised territory. It does not support genocide for false religion.
They ALL are references to retribution for actions taken by the individuals - not the innocent, children or others.
Allow me:
Matt 3: - is a call to repentence and baptism
Matt 22: is a retribution to the killers for killing servants (parable)
Matt 23: is Jesus calling out the Pharisees and Saducees as he knew they were planning to kill him
Matt 25: is retribution for failure to help the 'least of his followers'
Mark: is a parable for treatment after killing son
Luke: is retribution for refusing a king's reign (parable)
Romans: cites worthiness of death for committed actions
2Thes 1: is about recompense to persecutors\
Revelation: is too damn symbolic to apply here
what would it take for you to break up a relationship with someone you really love?
would it be physical abuse, refusing to go out and work, abuse of child, or whatever else?
Interesting topic with a variety of responses.
Let me head off some objections to my answer by saying that I know relationships go through ups and downs. I am talking about longer-term.
But I think a relationship needs to be mutually fulfilling. It needs to feel equitable to both. Otherwise one side or the other feels resentment, and it only builds. There are lots and lots af reasons to end a realtionship. If you're not getting anything out of it, if you feel unfairly treated, if you'ld rather 'do something else with your life,' then I see no reason to be a martyr.
i approached an elder last week, and asked him if the society was against higher education because of the comments brought out in the drama.
he said the society disapproves of higher education.. .
he privately told me he disagrees with the view the society has on education - he said it should be a personal choice.. .
And also during the 70's, our congregation had a couple students from New York attending because they were giong to the local college. There was also at least one other at my college, perhaps some more.
I'm guessing that this sort of varied acceptance has been going on for most of the history of the org.
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i got an original 1/1/89 wt - which says that the end would come before 2000 - before they changed it in subsequent bound volumes and cd-rom w/out telling anyone.. i also got a 1969 (purple cover) kingdom interlinear.
it is the one with the blatant mantey misquotes - you know - the ones that he fired off a letter regarding and demanded they remove mention of him and a public apology.. just thought i would share .... -ithinkisee
... the nurse could say that she was 'acting as a Dr.'"
She is a nurse that is acting under direction of a Dr. Of course, she could be acting as a Dr. if she said she was a Dr.
I have always wanted to ask a dutiful dubbie to read that WT and tell me, with an honest heart, that the Society is not claiming to be a prophet.
A couple other favorites on my shelf:
- a 1911 copy of "Daily Manna" designed to be a personal registry of birthdays
- an original 1920 "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" booklet (Remember that the society hold that the 'Millions Now Living' assembly fulfilled one of Revelation's seven bowl outpourings. I've never seen a recantatiion of that belief, so they believe that at least one of those seven was a lie - the bowl poured out a lie.)
