Human beings are the only creatures smart enough to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.
Enjoy some peace.
Gig
Posts by Gig
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37Was I a coward?
by DanTheMan inright before i disassociated myself last march, i sent an email to quite a number of jw's that contained only a link to an "apostate" website that had been instrumental in my seeing the the truth about the wt.. well, nobody responded to it except for one person, a guy who i hadn't had any contact with my last year in.
he started out with "yikes, do you know i'm disfellowshipped?
" he then went on for several paragraphs defending the org, how loving the brothers were when they disfellowshipped him .
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2
Ready, set, GO
by Gig ini believe all of you will be happy to hear that a jw friend of mine is finally willing to listen to me.
i have slowly but surely been breaking off little tid-bits of info about why i can't see the one true religion thing happening with the wts.
i have resisted the tremendous urge to "let 'em have it" and patience is prevailing.
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Gig
I believe all of you will be happy to hear that a JW friend of mine is finally willing to listen to me. I have slowly but surely been breaking off little tid-bits of info about why I can't see the one true religion thing happening with the WTS. I have resisted the tremendous urge to "let 'em have it" and patience is prevailing. I realize just how far I have yet to go and I know at any given point the WT walls can spring up again. So very carefully I want to inch forward. I know too that my friend has to have their own reasons for questioning, otherwise it's my word against the WT. But they seemingly have that reason, otherwise they wouldn't even agree to listen. From my previous comments to them they know basically what to expect, in a word...criticism, it seems like I just have to prove it. I could start with showing the WT mag language as the propaganda (won't use that word) that it is. How the stop-words work and the blurring of the line of authority. OR, do you think I should start with a real Bible study, or maybe show them where their NWT differs from practically every other Bible? OR, should I start with the obvious cases of pure dishonesty like the Should You Believe in the Trinity booklet. You guys ever follow up on some of their source references? Unbelieveable half-quoting and deceit. Anyway, I hope to get from you all your best ideas, if I start off wrong it might be impossible to get started again. Credibility is huge. I don't want the humorous side of this unless your comments are especially funny, then please do make me laugh...I could use it.
Gig
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Bells of truth don't stink
by Gig ini found this the other day and thought it worth sharing.
it reminds me of something, can you help me figure it out?.
the society which scorns excellence in plumbing because plumbing is a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy.
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Gig
I found this the other day and thought it worth sharing. It reminds me of something, can you help me figure it out?
The society which scorns excellence in plumbing because plumbing is a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy. Neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water. -John Gardner
Clang, I got it...
The Watchtower Society ridicules anyone trying to do the right thing because it's not found in the textbook(s) so JW's are forced to peer through the only theological pipe allowed, which unfortunately has long been clogged with you know what.
Enjoy your Thankgiving by doing just that, being thankful.
Gig
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15
One Helluva Surprise
by out4good3 inso i'm having a get together for my family.
the "pit" is going, the suds are flowing, and the sound from the tv permeates the air.
i look over and i notice that i've carelessly left my laptop in a place where it's easily accessible.
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Gig
Awesome! It matters how we go about it but the common goal remains the same. I wanted to personally thank you for not only wanting to share the truth but being very careful how you do so. You make the call but you might consider, given the opportunity, dropping a little blurb just to make sure his juices are still being stirred. Maybe say something really simple like, "yeah, it was the UN thing that got me going." And then change the subject and let it go. If your friend hasn't clicked on that one yet, he will.
Just an idea
Gig
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8
Gifts of the Holy Spirit
by freddi inon my long journey from trying to find a place where god actually resides, i have been to many a church.
i know that he does not reside in any building but i do like the fellowship along the way.
i used to be a church hopper when i left the k.h.
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Gig
Hi friend,
I think it's awesome that you are seeking to fully receive the Holy Spirit. God our Father doesn't really care about buildings and signs because the NT teaches that WE are the temple, our hearts are where He resides...if when you are visiting various churches you beforehand have prayerfully asked Him to lead you, I am certain He will make you know in your heart clearly whether His spirit is present in others of that congregation or not.
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is difficult to describe, it is obviously different for each of us but is guiding us all to the same place. As far as speaking in tongues and laying on of hands, I honestly can't say. The Bible speaks of signs and wonders performed "as the Spirit enabled them." So I am careful not to underestimate the power involved. However, the law of averages suggests that the Watchtower is wrong about what they teach. I will only caution you that I'm sure that there are many out there who put on a show to exaggerate the presence and power of the Holy Spirit only to deceive. Remember, "money is the root of ALL evil." Personally I have great difficulty truly appreciating those who so dramatically collapse at the laying on of hands, but maybe I am just too cynical. And the Bible tells those who speak in tongues to do so in a way NOT to confuse or distract others. With very great caution I suggest that you not rely on such displays for any large foundational part of your faith. The Spirit works daily in an infinate number of ways, my thinking is that anyone who has to have such visible proof lacks the faith necessary to please God. Faith is defined in Hebrews as being SURE and CERTAIN...of things UNSEEN.
Only a few of my thoughts, keep searching!
Gig
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5
Found it
by Gig inhi friends,.
i posted a few weeks back and mentioned a recent wt article that implied russell's writings were somehow beneficial.
i thought the irony was worth sharing.. the watchtower, april 15, 2002, page 28.... "as observed in 1925 by remigio cuminetti, banchetti showed 'much sympathy' for the work of the bible students and was 'fully convinced' of the doctrines as explained by them.. on one occasion, banchetti was discussing russell's writings with a man named j.campbell wall.
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Gig
Hi friends,
I posted a few weeks back and mentioned a recent WT article that implied Russell's writings were somehow beneficial. I thought the irony was worth sharing.
The Watchtower, April 15, 2002, page 28...
"As observed in 1925 by Remigio Cuminetti, Banchetti showed 'much sympathy' for the work of the Bible Students and was 'fully convinced' of the doctrines as explained by them.
On one occasion, Banchetti was discussing Russell's writings with a man named J.Campbell Wall. In answer to Wall's criticisms, Banchetti said: 'I am certain that if you read Russell's six volumes, you would experience a vigorous and deep joy, and you would thank me with emotion. I do not parade doctrine; but I read those books eleven years ago, and thank God every day for putting before me such light and such consolation by means of a work that is entirely and solidly founded on the Holy Scriptures.'
Listen, Listen, Listen
It is significant that these two Waldensian pastors- Daniel Rivoire and Giuseppe Banchetti- expressed appreciation for the way Russell explained the Bible.......
Every year, thousands listen to the Kingdom message as brought to their homes by Jehovah's Witnesses. Open-minded people everywhere who thirst for Bible truths are responding to Jesus' invitation: 'Come be my follower.' "
Isn't this nuts? Notice they didn't say anything about learning, only listen, listen, listen. To actually realize that every JW out there swallows this stuff whole is mind boggling. Wouldn't you think that this recent article, April of THIS year, would have caused some JW's to want to read Russell's writings? Hey, maybe this is another avenue to reach them...the GB themselves suggested it was beneficial, let's see if we can't help them see just how beneficial.
'By their fruits you will recognize them' is a favorite of their's...wouldn't the roots have anything to do with it?
Gig
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16
ADVICE NEEDED
by Mary ini need some advice on this one: a friend of mine who is still an active jw called me today all freaked out because another friend of hers, who only got baptized this summer, wants to leave "the truth".
this is because she's been talking to "worldly" people and they've almost got her convinced that the religion is a cult.. .
my girlfriend, sarah says of course, that this is "satan" trying to blind her, etc.
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Gig
Ask questions, leading questions, that way you can keep your disguise. You should know that you will never be able to stay credible if they don't have their own reasons for doubting. A conversation about the friend wanting to leave is an excellent opportunity. I hope that friend's reasons are worth conversing about but even if not, you still have an opportunity. Take it. Someone else put it on the table, not you, but you are willing to talk about it, a great balance. Refrain from jumping on any and every opportunity. Let your girl arrive at it herself by answering your questions honestly. Be careful with your questions, you will probably get blamed anyway for her doubts but as long as you can maintain the kind, considerate, and loving role the better. I'm not suggesting you aren't naturally that way but you risk losing it. Act carefully but act, one less witness is one more on God's side.
Gig
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12
Can't they leave me alone????
by moana inhowdy ya'all:.
gotta get over this - i feel like i'm having a nervous breakdown most days.
parent told me she is unable to speak with me anymore (3 months ago), sends watchtowers to me & hub.
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Gig
Maybe you could ask some very direct questions that they have no answer to. Like "show me where it says in the Bible that heaven was closed in 1935." Tell them that your research uncovered that former Watchtower president seemed to be an abusive alcoholic (true by the way) and he said 1935 came to him when a "bright light flashed up." Tell them you now understand the possibility, better yet the promise of heaven. And then maybe show them the Bible verse that says there is ONE mediator between God and man, the ONE man, Jesus. Tell them the Watchtower takes the verse in Revelations about the 144,000 from a literal 144,000 to a figurative 12,000 per 12 tribes right in the same verse. Tell them the "great crowd" is described to be "before the throne" using exactly the same greek words that describe the "little flock." You want to go to heaven!!!
Tell them that the Watchtower uses the Bible to support their teachings and you see the need for your religion to use their teachings to support the Bible. You now know that by the Holy Spirit you can go STRAIGHT to our Father in heaven and no longer need to submit to a bunch of guys in New York claiming divine authority.
If none of that works, just buy Ray Franz's book or some other "apostate" literature and bring it out on their arrival. I understand they feel these types of works are "spiritual pornography" and will flee from them. Who knows, maybe they'll consider reading some of it with you and be saved as well.
I can't wish you luck because all good and perfect gifts are from above.
Gig
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20
I'm in love with a witness
by Gig ini'm new to this forum and have been reading all these topics and posts and kind of getting to know some of you.
i've always purposely avoided anti-witness or ex-witness opinion before but i'm tired and am looking for an end to it all.
like it says, i am very much in love with a witness, and she is very much in love with me.
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Gig
I am only a non-believer in the Watchtower, not God our father, Jesus His son, and the Holy Spirit. They don't represent any of them well. I don't want to criticise her, I love her remember? Thanks anyway.
Gig
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20
I'm in love with a witness
by Gig ini'm new to this forum and have been reading all these topics and posts and kind of getting to know some of you.
i've always purposely avoided anti-witness or ex-witness opinion before but i'm tired and am looking for an end to it all.
like it says, i am very much in love with a witness, and she is very much in love with me.
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Gig
I'm new to this forum and have been reading all these topics and posts and kind of getting to know some of you. I've always purposely avoided anti-witness or ex-witness opinion before but I'm tired and am looking for an end to it all. Like it says, I am very much in love with a witness, and she is very much in love with me. She has always been dependent on others and when she found the Watchtower she figured she was in the best hands available. She's holding on so tight to her one and only security blanket and doing her best to deny me. I didn't know anything about the Watchtower or Jehovah's witnesses before I met her two years ago, but I did my homework the best way I knew how. I don't deserve any credit for figuring it out because they are so wrong so often. The mind control thing really angers me, constantly blurring the line between almighty God and some wanna be's in Brooklyn. But it's working on her because it's all she's ever had. She doesn't know their present truth much less their history, she just repeats what she can remember she read. So basically I have the advantage of her not knowing and the same disadvantage. I've gotten close a few times when she realized I knew what the Bible says, but then she'd catch herself and realize I'm not a witness and stop on a dime. Personally, professionally, and socially she thinks I'm perfect, which tells you how naive she really is...just kidding, I'm very serious about this. I in fact do know who Jesus is and better yet he knows who I am. I'm comfortable there. I've played the "canidate" long enough, I've got to make a move. I feel confident I can approach her doctrinally or emotionally but I'm no match for the Watchtower and all the "faithful" witnesses buzzing around. The only credibility I have is how many boring, repetitive, mindless, insulting meetings I've sat through. But I've done it because of 1 Corinthians chapter 9 verses 19-27, please read it before you reply and tell me what an idiot I am. Look, I know they try to disguise uniformity as unity, persecution as we must be doing it right, and their best effort as true religion. I have no idea how anyone could be at all satisfied by repeating the same things over and over and never want anything more. The watchtower studies are the worst, they may as well ask you to just read it over again if you want to comment. I've actually offered comments with color and flavor and spirit when I could agree with the point just to keep from screaming at them.
Oops, off the subject...I really just want some advice. I know what Jehovah's witnesses are all about, the Watchtower, No more no less. I don't need any pointers on arguementation (sp?) I just want some heart felt directions. I don't want sympathy and I don't want to be angry. I want to save this wonderful woman from further damage. It scares the you know what out of me to envision her 5 or 10 years down the road figuring it out. She would feel just like many of you have, that's why I ask you...my friends.
Thank you, Gig (God is great)
And yes, I am praying (hope you will too) and no I'm not underestimating the Holy Spirit. I full well expect to see the spirit working in you to help me.