Posts by Aroq

21

Fastest TTATT ever, maybe!!!??

by Crazyguy in

Aroq

Following the thinking on this thread I have also come up with a Biblical logical reason why the 144k is not all that reach Heaven. I have tried to use this but was given the wall of denial and diversion. Here it goes:

In Galatians 4:21-31, Paul is speaking of the two covenants in an allegory between Hagar and Sarah. Those that were of Hagar were born in the ordinary way (Jewish descent) and those born of Sarah were a result of a promise (born by the power of the Spirit).

Starting at verse 24 Paul goes into explaining the meaning of each Sarah and Hagar and to which Jerusalem they belong to. Hagar stood for the present city of Jerusalem and Sarah stood for the Jerusalem from above. The Jerusalem from above was free, just like Sarah in the allegory. This is the New Jerusalem spoken of in Revelation chapter 21 which is from above. In Verse 27 (a quote from Isaiah 54:1) it says that the children of the desolate woman (Sarah) will outnumber those of the woman with the husband (Hagar). It goes on in Isaiah to explain that this group will be much greater in number than the children of "Hagar".

So all of that being said, how can the New Jerusalem (Rev chapter 21)consist of only the 144,000 if Sarah's(Jerusalem from above) descendants will out number Hagar's (Earthly Jerusalem)?

At Gal 4:24 “24 These things may be taken as a symbolic drama; for these women mean two covenants, the one from Mount Si′nai, which bears children for slavery and which is Ha′gar.”
If we look to see the history of this covenant at Mount Si’nai it takes us back to Exodus 19:1-5 and the Ten Commandments at Exodus 20. This took place three months after the Israelites left Egypt (Exodus 19:1) and at that time there were 600,000 men not including the women and children (Exodus 12:31-38). These were men of 20 years of age and older (Exodus 38:26). So rightfully there were close to 1.2 million people (women and children included) in all if not more. This is the covenant represented in Gal 4:25 as I understand it.
After establishing a number (could be more) in the covenant of Hagar, we know that from the scripture in Isaiah 54:1 that the other covenant mentioned in Gal 4 (Sarah) is to outnumber the first. This puts a problem with the 144,000 being the Heavenly Jerusalem/Jerusalem from above/New Jerusalem as there were more than 600,000 in the covenant with Hagar!

6

UN & Recent Catholic development & The future of organized religion

by 4thgen in

there were recent two posts that got me to thinking...the first was on the topic of if rank and file should be excused and the second was from a person whose mother who was in her 80s excited about the un and the catholic child abuse issue, believing the great tribulation was near.. as with the ways of the world, eventually the governments may get tired of all the abuses that are perpetrated by religions against their citizens; and action maybe be taken.

it can quickly become a worldwide human rights issue, as not many citizens actually condone child abuse.. of course if organized religion is turned upside down, a great amount of wealth may return to the governments, which could begin to bring the world economy back into balance.. so, it appears at this point in time there is a possibility that the u.n. may turn on religion eventually.

(like the jw speak?

Aroq

What I could see from the scenario you presented is that the tax deduction and exemption being done away with globally. That alone would hurt many, especially those who hoard $ and property. Would that take away from Churches? Some, but those who gather for no other means other than to worship God and help others, I do not see that EVER going away. Case in point, home Bible studies.

14

Need Advice "How To Shame A Jehovah Witnesses Elderettee and CBOE", What to say to Friends?

by RottenRiley in

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hi, my mom is dying of cancer and my jw brother and sister refuse to take her to chemotherapy, i thought of providing this information on their business website to debunk the claim they are "a loving family constuction company".

my next door neighbors keep asking me why i am the only one taking her to radiation and chemotherapy, should i tell them my brother and sister are the biggest pieces of shit in san luis obispo county and they hate me because i got rid of two pedophile elders by threatening the watchtower society?.

Aroq

RottenRiley,

My only question to them is "who brought you into this world? Wiped your Butt, fed you and took care of YOU! Isn't it now time for you to try and give back a little something?"

I am really sorry that this is even an issue, and in all reality it shouldn't have anything to do with being a JW or not, it is decency towards your Mother! There are people all over the world and in all walks of life that disrespect their parents in more ways than one. I'm sorry that you have to witness that within your own family.

On a very side note, do not become discouraged if they do something and your Mom praises them for it. I do not know your family situation, but she may do it to acknowledging that they care and helping herself know that they care, kind of giving herself the love from them. Mom's are great at seeing the little things in us and making a big deal about them. Be happy with the time you get to have with your Mom right now, one day we will all lose our parents and will wish we had them back.

I mean nothing more than to encourage you.

Love

46

ACTUALLY any form of pants are wrong wrong wrong!!

by hamsterbait in

tight pants - tempting the gays to chase you: you cannot resist their advances bad bad bad!!!!!!!!!!!!.

baggy pants - in a 1993 witchtower baggy pants were a sign you are a rapper : bad bad bad!!!!!!!!!!.

pants just right?

Aroq

please Sauloftarsus, tell me what I should wear. I want to fit into your group. If all it takes is clothes, then I'm in!!!!!!!!

9

D'Fd coming to the aid of a JW in good standing

by keynumber in

no he's not my biological brother, nor has he ever been in the position to help me, we'v in the past have been out in the ministry togethor, very quite, single brother in his late 30's.

drives a little truck, he gives a ride to a specially challenged brother all the time, they never sit with each other as sister do that ride with each other to the hall, not a good speaker, reads with difficultly, sits in the back, only i quess has two suits, boots that are rounding out at the heals, a sign of walking in the city on concrete, always sits in the back looking in total peace, after the meeting stands alone in the back with a smile that tells you he's in total confidence not careing if the brothers just pass him up, real handshake, just a nice guy, getting to what i want to say.. we were moving and in the move i found hedgetrimmers and blower still in the box brand new, not even opened.

i had them for such a long time, never needing them, just keeping them stored along other 'junk' as wife calls it, keeping stuff just in case the tribulation comes so i won't have to depend on jw's when were hiding from the caos, that is determined to get jw's.. thought of him..,but didn't have his phone #.

Aroq

Hey, Keynumber,

Good on ya for recognizing some one in need, and doing something about it. There is no praise, there is no shame.....we are all in need of something. Thank you for helping. The other thing I wanted to say was, shouldn't the "group" "organization" "collectiveness of the cong" help those who need it? Do others not see the need?

The Love you gave may not be appreciated or seen as good from men, and maybe not even seen from the individual as being helpful, but it is your heart that matters and that's what God loves.

43

I could do with some help please?

by chrisuk in

so the elder i studied with called round last wednesday.

i didn't tell him i'd lost my faith, i just said there are a number of reasons i wouldn't be able to return to either my studies or the meetings.

he asked me whar 2 or 3 of my reasons are so we could discuss them.. my reply: 1 i think all christians should partake of the bread and wine.

Aroq

I want to add something to all of this.

The partaking, this has helped me understand and prove that Jesus was not meaning to only the anotined. Straight from the Bible:

Starting at John 6:1-14 where Jesus is feeding the 5 thousand we see a large group of people (5,000 plus the disciples). In verse 15 Jesus withdrew until evening. After this the disciples were crossing the sea in and Jesus followed by walking on the water (verses 16-21).

This part is pretty simple and basic, but when we get to verse 22 thru 24 we see that the large group were still trying to follow Jesus. They find Him at verse 25. Now this group was said to be 5 thousand, but we can gather that not all of them went.

In verse 25, the growd asked Jesus " When did you get here?" Jesus goes on to answer them and talk with them. Jesus speaks about the bread they ate, and what "works" are works of God. Jesus continues to tell them of this bread in verse 32 that comes down from Heaven and how God provided for Moses and the Israelites. Then they said in verse 34"give us this bread". Jesus said He was this bread in verse35.

So who is asking for this bread? The crowd that were fed. This is a large group and were they baptized? Anointed? I think not, they were still learning from Jesus and seeking.

After Jesus told the crowd that He was the bread, the Jews heard of this and were grumbling (verse 41). They could not grasp how Jesus could be from heaven. They did not believe. They were not anointed. They were not baptized either. But Jesus spoke to them and told them about who He was and that He is the bread of life. Then the Jews began to argue (verse 52), and then this is where Jesus said verse 53 "...unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you hvae no life in yourselves."

So who did Jesus tell this to?

Read it, not from what I wrtoe here, but in the Bible itself. See for yourself who He was talking to.

I hope this helps.

7

Disfunctional families of JW's

by JakeM2012 in

this past summer has been rewarding and distressful, as some would say, it has been bitter sweet.

my wife finished her degree and is now working at a hospital, (as a janitor cleaning windows), lol.

oh, we also live in a van down by the river!.

Aroq

Thanks for venting!

This quote sparked something in me to speak up:

"While not disfellowshiped or disassociated I sometimes think it would be an answer in a diffinitive way. I just wanted to vent."

Why do you owe it to anyone to DF or DA? What good will that do for you? not much I presume. The only thing it will do is give other's a reason to behave a certain way. Why should you make that decision for them on how they treat you? Isn't that for them to decide based on their own morals and beliefs?

I am only voicing my opinion, nothing more nothing less.

18

DA'd then what to expect.

by Crazyguy in

so the impending doom of the end is coming and i will not be df'd so they can tell others i sinned or something else.

i will da, but not sure what to expect next and what they will say to my family and children.

i have 5 kids one baptised and ofcourse a wife, so what should i prepare for??

Aroq

They are not masters over anyone's faith - each one will render an account for himself!<------ this!

I just spoke something of this nature to my Mother-in-law. Kinda made her step back and think for a moment.

12

IT'S THE MOST WONDERFUL TIME OF THE YEAR!!!

by DATA-DOG in

just getting a jump on the holiday season!!

i figure that i will post this every year for discussion.

these were my observations when learning ttatt.

Aroq

This is great! I think that your digilance in finding out what the Bible says is something we all should be doing. We need to fact check what is told to us. The Bible is the ONLY truth in which we can rely on, not what men say.

37

The elders came by and my DA letter

by Crazyguy in

the lead elder co of my hall said he was going to push for a jc meeting.

i could tell all along all hes interested in is protecting his god the org.. so i'm 90% sure now of going on the offesive and first having a family meeting telling them i'm offically quitting and how its going to play out and how i'll will be shunned even though i have commited no sin.

i also may explain a little of why and how i came to this decision with out bashing the org to much out of respect for my wife.

Aroq

I cannot speak from direct knowledge of being DF'd as I have never been a JW, but when the chips are down, you find out who your real friends are. Jesus has ALWAYS been my friend.

There are a lot of views from people here that I agree with.

"I would never give a judicial committee the honor and dignity of my time and attention. They have no authority over me and cannot require me to do anything."

"what's more important to you, your relationship to God and Christ or your relationship with your family."

I think your letter is great. It tells from your heart what you really think. Short and to the point.

Along the lines of what I quoted I do not see myself giving anyone the time of effort to condemn me if I have in fact stopped believing what they tell me to.

I also know that in the end, the very end, we are going to be judged according to what we as individuals have done, not our family, not our friends not anyone else. I alone am responsible and will be judged according to what I have done.