Posts by objectivetruth

40

Letter to Governing Body .Recorded conversations with Elders

by Watchtower-Free in

i found this on youtube...very good example of twisted reasoning by elders.. .

recorded conversations with elders by a former pioneer....a series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw8amuphqis.

objectivetruth

These brothers do show Love for him, and they TRY at least. They didn't come back with a "The Light Get's brighter comment" for every point he prought up..

The issue is that most JW are Spiritual Babes.

35

How Do You Come to Terms with Being Just One of the 7 Billion?

by will-be-apostate in

jw
friends

being a jw makes one feel special, no doubt.

when i found out ttatt i realized i'm not special at all.

i'm just one of the other 7 billion human beings who will live and die being nobody, the world will forget about them (and i'm not talking about relatives and friend), they didn't make anything special in their life, they didn't change the course of history, were not famous nor rich, didn't invent facebook, google or anything awesome, didn't have an article published in newscientist, had no imdb profil, not even a wiki page, didn't write a book etc.

objectivetruth

Wrong Thread

37

There are some questions I have had about the JWs view "post-Armaggeddon"

by booker-t in

i have always wondered how jws believe about "post-armaggeddon" earth.

question#1 how will jws survivors bury all of the dead bodies.

with about 4 billion people on earth today how can 8 million jw(1/2 of them children and babies) bury all of those dead bodies?

objectivetruth

Great Story, thanks Blondie!

isnt it great to be a human??

37

There are some questions I have had about the JWs view "post-Armaggeddon"

by booker-t in

i have always wondered how jws believe about "post-armaggeddon" earth.

question#1 how will jws survivors bury all of the dead bodies.

with about 4 billion people on earth today how can 8 million jw(1/2 of them children and babies) bury all of those dead bodies?

objectivetruth

Eom - It is interesting that Ez 38 & 39 seem to be the same event. It seems possible that 38 is referring to an event in Jerusalem during this age. And 39 is referring to an event at the end of the 1000 years.

Here is some info about the nations that attack.

Some feel that Meshech can refer to modern day Russia.

2 - “Son of man, set your face against Gog of the land of Ma′gog, the head chieftain of Me′shech and Tu′bal, and prophesy against him. (Warlike allies or subjects to Gog of Magog)

Psalms 120:5-7 " 5 Woe to me, for I have lived as a foreigner in Me′shech! I have been dwelling among the tents of Ke′dar. 6 I have been dwelling far too long With those who hate peace. 7 I am for peace, but when I speak, They are for war."

Meshech = Mushku / Phyrgians (King Midas of phyrgia) Mushku > Muskovites of Russia

Tubal - Uncircumsised ones with whom, Egyptians will lie with in Sheol.

37

There are some questions I have had about the JWs view "post-Armaggeddon"

by booker-t in

i have always wondered how jws believe about "post-armaggeddon" earth.

question#1 how will jws survivors bury all of the dead bodies.

with about 4 billion people on earth today how can 8 million jw(1/2 of them children and babies) bury all of those dead bodies?

objectivetruth

EOM - What do you feel differentiates Ezekiel 38,39 from Revelation 20:7-10? I can appreciate that they may be different events, but the wording and progression of events is very similar. The result is the same as we'll fire comes from heaven to destroy them.

5

May 2014 Watchtower Study Article Are You Moving Ahead With Jehovahs Organization?

by objectivetruth in

if jehovah resurrects the inhabitants of sodom & gomorrah, to give them a fair chance to life.. he truly is love!.

please see the wt and related articles in the resurrection of sodom & gomorrah : 1879 resurrection confirmed : = yes "let me give you an illustration that will be forcible: the sodomites.

surely if we find their restitution mentioned you will be satisfied.

objectivetruth

1 Peter 3:15, We are told in the Bible.

But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect.

My Hope is Based on this Scripture: 1 John 4:8 - Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.

A scripture that fortifies my Hope is Matthew 10:15 - Truly I say to you, it will be more endurable for the land of Sod′om and Go·mor′rah on Judgment Day than for that city. If Jehovah Resurrects the Inhabitants of Sodom & Gomorrah, to give them a Fair Chance to life.. He Truly is Love!

Please see the WT and related articles in the Resurrection of Sodom & Gomorrah : 1879 Resurrection Confirmed : = Yes "Let me give you an illustration that will be forcible: The Sodomites. Surely if we find their restitution mentioned you will be satisfied. But why should they not have an opportunity to obtain eternal life as well as you or the Jew? They were not wicked in the proper sense, for they did not have law or much knowledge. True, they were not righteous, but neither were you when God gave you your opportunity. Christ's own words shall tell us that they are not as guilty in His sight as the Jews, who had more knowledge: "Woe unto thee Capernium, for if the mighty works which have been done in thee had been done in Sodom it would have remained unto this day." Thus Christ's own words teach us that they had not had their full opportunity. "Remember," Christ says of the Sodomites, that "God rained down fire and destroyed them all." So, if their restoration is spoken of, it implies their resurrection." Watchtower 1879 Jul 1 p.8 (http://wtarchive.svhelden.info/archive/en/Watchtower/w1879_E.pdf)

The Watchtower 15. November 1955, p. 676: Annihilated with no Resurrection = NO
That some will not gain salvation is made clear in the Bible from Genesis through Revelation. In sentencing Adam God said: “For dust you are and to dust you will return.” That means annihilation, not salvation. Regarding Sodom and Gomorrah we are told that they “are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing” judicial everlasting punishment. At Revelation 21:8 (NW) we read that all the wicked will have their portion “in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death.” Nothing is said about a redemption or a resurrection from this second death.—Gen. 3:19; Jude 7, NW.

The Watchtower 1. March 1965, p. 138: Not Condemned to the Lake of Fire = Yes
17 So the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah were made a “warning example,” because they were not allowed to continue existing till the day of Jesus Christ and of Peter and Jude and fellow disciples. Not that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah were condemned to Gehenna and were hurled into the “lake that burns with fire and sulphur”; but that they were made a warning example to unfaithful Christians (”ungodly persons”) who will be judicially punished with “everlasting fire” or everlasting destruction.

The Watchtower 1. July 1967, p. 409: Condemned with no Resurrection = NO
How will these, having been caught, be disposed of? Will they be preserved alive? Will they be killed and buried in Hades or Sheol, which is the common grave of dead mankind, from which resurrection is possible? No, these political organizations are slated to be “hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur.” This the Bible describes as the “second death.” (Rev. 20:14) It means the death from which there is no resurrection. They will be burned up root and branch, as completely gone forever as the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, which Jehovah God burned up by a rain of fire and sulphur from heaven, never to be rebuilt. It is destruction in Gehenna in which God destroys both body and soul (any right or possibility of living).—Matt. 10:28; Gen. 19:23-29; 2 Pet. 2:6-9; Jude 7.

The Watchtower 8. October 1974, p. 20: "God will bring back the people of Sodom & Gomorrah" = Yes
God’s dealing with Sodom and Gomorrah shows that he takes no pleasure in the death of anyone, but wants all to live, if they will just live respectfully toward their fellowman and in obedience to righteous principles. (Ezek. 33:11; Mic. 6:8) Moreover, God’s undeserved kindness and care are so great that he will bring back the people of Sodom by a resurrection, with opportunity to learn and turn around to the way of life, even as his Son stated.—Luke 10:11, 12; Matt. 11:24.

The Watchtower 15. August 1982, p. 26: - individuals once residing there will be resurrected. = Yes
10 Sodom, Gomorrah and surrounding cities furnished a warning example “by undergoing [Jehovah God’s] judicial punishment of everlasting fire,” eternal destruction. The charred ruins of at least Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim are thought to lie under the waters of the southern portion of the Salt (Dead) Sea or in that region. So neither they nor their inhabitants are still burning. Apparently the cities themselves, rather than all their inhabitants, were everlastingly destroyed, for it seems that at least some individuals once residing there will be resurrected. (Matthew 10:15; 11:24; Revelation 20:12, 13)

The Watchtower 1. June 1988, p. 30: everlasting cutting-off = NO
There is an interesting similarity in phraseology between this description and what Jude said occurred in the case of Sodom. Furthermore, Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 19:11-21 indicate that “the goats” cut off in the coming war of God will experience “everlasting cutting-off” in “the lake of fire,” which symbolizes permanent annihilation.—Revelation 20:10, 14. Consequently, in addition to what Jude 7 says, the Bible uses Sodom/Gomorrah and the Flood as patterns for the destructive end of the present wicked system. It is apparent, then, that those whom God executed in those past judgments experienced irreversible destruction.

Insight, Vol. 1 p. 985 (Gomorrah): - Resurrected = Yes
The apostle Peter said that by reducing Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes, God condemned them, “setting a pattern for ungodly persons of things to come.” (2Pe 2:6) This mention by Peter and references by Jesus Christ and Jude prove that Jesus and his disciples acknowledged that these cities of the District had actually existed and that they accepted the Biblical account of them as true. Though the cities underwent “the judicial punishment of everlasting fire” (Jude 7), Jesus indicated that people of Sodom and Gomorrah would experience a resurrection to stand for judgment. He contrasted them with a city that rejected his disciples in their preaching of the Kingdom good news, saying: “It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on Judgment Day than for that city.”—Mt 10:7, 14, 15;

Live forever... (1989) Chap. 21, p. 179: - No Resurrection = NO
Will such terribly wicked persons be resurrected during Judgment Day? The Scriptures indicate that apparently they will not. For example, one of Jesus’ inspired disciples, Jude, wrote first about the angels that forsook their place in heaven to have relations with the daughters of men. Then he added: “So too Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them, after they in the same manner as the foregoing ones had committed fornication excessively and gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.” (Jude 6, 7; Genesis 6:1, 2) Yes, for their excessive immorality the people of Sodom and of the surrounding cities suffered a destruction from which they will apparently never be resurrected.—2 Peter 2:4-6, 9, 10a.

Watchtower 1990 Apr 15 p.20 = NO

"A definite indication is found at Jude 7, where we read that "Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them … are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire." Yes, the destruction of the gross sinners in those cities was eternal, as will be the destruction of the wicked at the end of the present system of things."

Watchtower 2005 Jul 15 p.31 = NO "Those who are judged unworthy of a resurrection are pitched into “Gehenna,” or “the lake of fire.” (Matthew 5:22; Mark 9:47, 48; Revelation 20:14) Among these would be the first human pair, Adam and Eve, the betrayer Judas Iscariot, and certain ones who died when God executed judgment upon them, such as the people in Noah’s day and the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah."

I do not make any Judgement on the Writers of the Watchtower over the years, for these different Interpretations..

However I'm left in a difficult position, when I am told in the May 2014 Watchtower - " 15 - “If we are to have Jehovah’s favor and blessing as individuals, we must support his organization and accept adjustments in our understanding of the Scriptures”

Going back to 1 Peter 3:15 "ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have,"

Should the Reason for my hope be based on what I read in the Scriptures, or should it be based on Current Understanding in the Watchtower?

Does this "Command" in the Watchtower Void out 1 John 4:1-4 " Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."

22

this is how witnessing is being done nowadays

by losingit in

i have a non jw friend that knows about jws only bc i related toher my experience leaving this abusive cult.

anyhoo, she went to starbucks yesterday and there was an older man on his laptop.

she sat next to him while she did work on her tablet.

objectivetruth

I imagine that this is how Jesus would send an email, while in the ministry as well.

The message is so clear, and easy to understand.. I'm surprised your friend didn't say, " See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?"

15

Whats the difference between a rank and file member and a G.B.member .

by smiddy in

and r.& f. member , initially beleived with our whole soul that jehovahs witnesses had the ultimate truth over every other religion .. the differences between the g.b.

members and the r&f members is simply this.

members are given power and authourity by the r.&f members to dictate to them what they should beleive through new light revelations.

objectivetruth

They may believe that their deceit is "For the greater good"

14

Update of course

by Jon Preston in

so my wife is slowly waking up!

but cognitive dissonance is thick indeed!

my wife knows the gb are false in many ways but she still holds to the "theyre more right than others!

objectivetruth

When my wife and I were in a similar situation as you are, we listened to Edward Dunlap's Testimony together.

Brother Dunlap- DO > Gillead Registrar > Writing Commitee > Apostate

If you have the Aid Book in your home, bring up,the fact that Franz,Dunlap and one other Brother all left the org after engaging in intense bible study for several years..

When are you morning to FL btw? We live in FL

36

Get ready for phone calls from Elders either this week or when the next CO visit happens.

by EndofMysteries in

i got a call the other day, it looks like the gb is telling everyone to contact all inactive ones, let them know they are missed, etc, and to do it within a week.

.

objectivetruth

I got that "Call" after CO visit, and it was no big deal at all.. Just generic really.