Posts by mizpah

24

Could Disfellowshipping Finish Off the Watchtower?

by metatron in

let's do some speculative thinking about the watchtower's future!.

suppose some holes are legally poked thru the watchtower's actions on disfellowshipping,.

whether in the us or other countries.

mizpah

The difficulty in the U.S. is that the legal system does not like handling cases that involve "religious freedom" because of a fear of infringing on the Constitution and Bill of Rights. It is only when the conflict involves a violation of civil rights that it is forced to deal with these issues. The Watchtower Society has resorted to legal threats to discourage individuals from pursuing these cases. It realizes that most victims have only limited financial resources to fight back. In contrast, the Society maintains a battery of lawyers and unlimited finances at its disposal.

I don't think the Watchtower Society is going to "go away" any time soon. It may, in time, adjust its views and moderate its position. But this will take years to accomplish. Undoubtedly, there will be more scandals and revelations that will cause some to leave the organization. But this is always counterbalanced by the new converts that come in. But nothing in life is completely static. Eventually, changes will come. And then, perhaps, as James Penton suggested that Jehovah's Witnesses will be just another "denomination among denominations."

14

Reformers repeat mistake....

by mizpah in

i'm reading a fascinating book, god's best seller, by brian moynahan.

in it he documents how a few men like wycliff and tyndale risked their lives to make the bible available to the common people.

the catholic church violently opposed these efforts and persecuted all who were involved in the translating, publishing and distributing the scriptures.

mizpah

I'm reading a fascinating book, God's Best Seller, by Brian Moynahan. In it he documents how a few men like Wycliff and Tyndale risked their lives to make the Bible available to the common people. The Catholic church violently opposed these efforts and persecuted all who were involved in the translating, publishing and distributing the Scriptures. The great Reformers followed through and broke the oppressive ecclesiastical system of the Catholic church.

However, the sad fact is that some of the Reformers repeated the same mistake as the Church. They aligned themselves with political leaders to secure their positions. And then they ended up persecuting those that were in opposition to them. They justified this by proclaiming that "heretiks" were worse than murderers in God's sight.

It reminded me of what happen in Bethel twenty years ago. The Watchtower's Governing Body started persecuting those members who were studying the Bible and sharing the research. The Society has implied that "apostates" are worse than all other sinners. And this paranoia continues to this day.

One phrase in the book sums up the narrow view held by the Watchtower Society: "...dorness often bred by intense faith and moral certitude."

13

Faith beyond beliefs

by Narkissos in

to make a long story short, i'm an xjw from france: born and baptized as a catholic, i became a jw in 1972 at the age of 13 with part of my family; then a pioneer and a bethel member, before being disfellowshipped for "apostasy" in 1986. afterwards, involved in theology and bible edition with the mainstream protestant churches, slowly drifting from the evangelical to the liberal wing and finally out of all religious groups and beliefs.

the "atheologist" label, i guess, would suit fairly enough by now.. the question i'd like to ask my fellow xjw "brothers and sisters" (and there seems to be plenty of them around .

the question is especially directed to those of you who would not easily term themselves "christians", and who have not sticked to any recognized "creed".

mizpah

Most of my friends and I were Christians before becoming Jehovah's Witnesses and most remain after leaving the organization. Most have taken different directions. A few have gone back to traditional churches. Some have become "home Baptist" with no affiliations. But the one thread that seems to be common is the general mistrust of "organized religion." The Watchtower experience has made us wary.

I'm still inspired by the simple and loving teachings of Christ. And I still have faith in his promises of life everlasting.

11

my promise to you, a quote from ray franz

by the mole in

***the mole*** i told many of you i recieved a letter from ray franz regarding my situation with my family and my kingdom hall.

his kindness and compassion found the time to write me and uplift me, this should help tinkerbell82 also....-----ray wrote, " as for what you will do in your present situation, that is something you must work out with god's help and the guidance of his spirit.

one must make decisions as to what conscience can allow, what good can be accomplished.

mizpah

Thanks for sharing Ray's comments. As always, Ray's insight and counsel is "right on the mark." He has left us a valuable legacy in this two books that will continue long after he leaves. His courage and faith will endure.

51

Jesus came in 1874 and then changed to 1914, no problem, per FDS

by garybuss in

prefatory note .

(to watch tower reprints wtb&ts 1919) .

the watch tower is unique among all the publications in the world.

mizpah

garybuss:

Russell and others made the same mistake as many other Christian groups down through history including many of the Reformers. Convinced that they were living in the "end times" they interpreted prophecy by the events of their day. Many of them seemed to "fit the picture." And they thought that they had "the truth."

I remember thinking in the 1950s that conditions could not get much worse. The Watchtower's explanations seemed correct. Since most other religious organizations were not interested in the Bible and prophecy, I thought this organization was unique and God directed. Of course, I was young and naive. I knew little about the Bible and less about the history of the history of the organization.

But we should not berate ourselves as having "wasted our time." There are always positive results that come out of the worse experiences. If nothing else, we learn what to avoid and how to spend the remaining time left. Sadly, many people leaving the organization abandon themselves to hedonism and unbelief. And that is worst than having stayed in the organization.

21

Is it Time For Watchtower Begging Again?

by metatron in

jw
friends

alas, some expensive witness traditions have ended - like food service at assemblies or mailed subscriptions.. however, since 1996, the society has had a tradition of begging for money in the november watchtower.. i think they hope rich witnesses will think about re-balancing their portfolios or making changes before the end.

of the taxable year in december.. .

lawyers and new printing facilities ( to be on-line in 2005) cost a lot of money, so look for their appeal soon.. .

mizpah

"...and the Pharisees were money lovers."

It's ironic that the Watchtower used to condemn the "clergy" for their money loving ways. In the old Watchtower cartoons of the clergy and business interests always had a big dollar sign attached to them in some way. Jehovah's Witnesses used to boast that they were "different." They weren't interested in property and buildings. They were only interested in "spreading the Good News."

But from the 1950s on a fundamental change occurred. Kingdom Halls were erected. Printing facilities were built around the world. Large Bethel complexes were established. Now the Watchtower Society uses these as evidence of how Jehovah has blessed his organization. It's remains as one of the classic "turn arounds" in Watchtower teachings.

5

should we parents,forgive and forget ?

by arancia in

i well known,how easy is to make mistakes,many time you do not relized until the damage is done.i notice,on this board the many reasons why some of the writers,fill the way they do and i am sorry for what as happen to them.

do you belive parents do not have reasons too to forgiving they children?to forget even for us parents can be very hard,do not worry about that,is the same fillings,the same regreats,the same hope you always dream your kids to be,special.

maybe,some dream, almost dare to have the perfect child.we know,that can not be.to be the perfect parents is impossible as to have the special child.there are things that a mom can cry but not solution is avalable,can you always blame your mom for the wrong things you did and that can not be different ?

mizpah

Arancia:

There is no text book on parenting that will work. Every child is different. Most parents just try to do the best they can to raise their children. All parents make mistakes. Some parents should never have been such. If nothing else, children should respect their parents as their source of life. Love, on the other hand, involves a respect for the devotion and care that a child received from their parents.

Many Jehovah's Witness parents felt they were doing the right thing by raising their children in the organization. They saw it as a protection against the ravages of "the world." These parents were motivated by love. What they couldn't foresee was that the organization itself made parenting difficult with its demands of meetings, field service and study. It allowed little time for normal family life. It actually cheated the parents of quality time that could have been spent with their children.

But society in general is not conducive to family life any longer. Divorce, drugs, premarital sex and the many other problems work against family unity. And until society makes a fundamental change, we will only see family unity disintegrate further.

51

Jesus came in 1874 and then changed to 1914, no problem, per FDS

by garybuss in

prefatory note .

(to watch tower reprints wtb&ts 1919) .

the watch tower is unique among all the publications in the world.

mizpah

Russell was so sure of his interpretation of prophecy that he was forced to bend them to fit his preconceived ideas. The whole Adventist movement did the same thing after the failure of William Miller's predictions about 1843-44. The SDAs went on to teach "the wrong event and the right time." They explained that Christ was "tarrying" in the heavens before his visible coming.

When Christ did not appear as expected, Russell stumbled upon an explanation. Christ came but was "invisible" in the heavens. According to his calculation, it happened in 1874. What a solution! No one could "prove" otherwise. But he also predicted that "the end" would occur forty years later in 1914. Rutherford was left with the legacy of this false prediction. So, he revised the entire date system and put 1914 as the beginning of "the end."

It's too bad they ignored what the scriptures said all along. No one would know when Christ would come again...but all would see him when the event happened.

19

Have you tried to explain?

by anglise in

have you ever tried to explain to someone who has no religious leaning how you once truly believed that you could live forever and that now you are no longer a jw that certainty is gone, and how hard that is to deal with at times?.

the look of disbelief and pity that you get in return.. maybe thats partly why we need to talk so often to other xjw's.

whats been your experiences.. anglise

mizpah

Most religions in the world have a belief in a future life whether it is called "heaven, paradise, nirvana, etc." So, why would one have to feel embarrassed over a belief system that taught "everlasting life on a paradise earth?" I am not uncomfortable with doctrine as much as I am with the organization that taught it. In fact, I think the idea of a restored earth is great. But I no longer believe it is the hope that Christ taught to his followers.

However, I do have a friend (XJW) who has moved into a new area and wants no one to know his previous association with the Watchtower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses. He said he's ashamed to admit he once was part of the organization. For me though, It presents an oppotunity to tell people why I left the organization.

41

"We Miss You! (but only at the meetings)"

by Funchback in

it has been a good (7) weeks since i've last attended a kh meeting.

this weekend, however, the calls of "encouragement" came rolling in.

on saturday, a brother (actually a very decent, likable, and genuine man) left me a message and said that he misses me at the meetings.

mizpah

It's all a process of determining WHY you are not attending the meetings. If some evidence comes forth that you are not attending because you no longer recognize the Watchtower Society as God's channel, then you will receive a visit in your home: the elders.

It is sad that no real friendships and relationships are built on genuine Christian love. It is a conditional "love" based on one's loyalty to an organization. Any one who is disfellowshipped or who disassociates himself quickly realizes how superficial all the "love" among Jehovah's Witnesses really is.