Posts by mizpah

9

israel/judah the split, will it happen to wts?

by the mole in

just as israel and judah split the org will also split.

it is time for those who love real truth break away.

can reformation happen?

mizpah

It's hard to predict what is in store in the future for the organization. If history is a good example, only a few groups have formed that were made up of former Watchtower members. Most individuals become wary of any organized efforts after having experienced the regimentation of the Watchtower Society. Once the ties are broken, it is difficult to form new ones even if some of the new leaders are well respected.

The Worldwide Church of God is a recent example of what happens to an organization when it is split by the leadership. It has fragmented into various groups even though Armstrong's successor controls the organization and assets. Strangely, this leader has thrown out most of Armstrong's teachings and gone back to a more orthodox viewpoint.

I have no doubt that there will be changes in the organization. We have some evidence of that already. But what will actually happen in the future is anyone's guess.

13

What do you think is the best way to deal with karma?

by CruithneLaLuna in

oh, i am confused.

someone has given me a little taste of my own medicine, and i don't like it.. here we are, very close to eleven years later to the day.

does anyone know of some astrological or other synchronistic significance of a period of eleven years?.

mizpah

I love this bumber sign I recently saw:

"YOUR KARMA RAN OVER MY DOGMA."

3

Dfd , more liberal wuie ?

by happy man in

.

have all this nocie in tv about jw and there dfd system lead to a more soft treatnign of at least moral siins, some are pointing on that , i was ther when the harder line was putt inn 1999 on an eldermeeting all over the word, perhaps this bigg media attention have some inpackt on how jw use the dfd system.. internet have also make a revolution fore peopel how have been badley treated, before they have nowan to talk to, sudenly the have the whole word listnign, i dont think this have been understad by the gb before now.. i want also now if soem here now about diffrent handeling if it is po or do how do bad things compared to young pepopelor peopel how thy think not are so aktiv as po and other give ther life fore jw.. if we read rom second chap, we see that the bibel say if you are a judge, "elder" you have no mercy if you do the same thing as the peopel you judge.. i have gett this information from commitee members how they see on this issu, if the acused man seems to regret what he done, even if it is on the commite meeting we must forgive him, it is not how bigg the sinn is how it is most important, it is if he seems repentant.. i have littel difficult to understanad this, beaucause the hard way some young peopel have been treated, .

mizpah

Happyout:

I'm not sure of the exact circumstances that made the Governing Body dismiss Chitty and Greenlees from Bethel. But according to James Penton in his book, Apocalypse Delayed, he says the following: "Perhaps not surprisingly, the Proclaimers book never mentions that two governing-body members - Ewart Chitty and Leo Greenlees - were forced off that council for ongoing homosexual practices but were never disfellowshipped." (Page 322) I think the only notice that was given was the new list of Governing Body members that eliminated these two.

It's apparent by this that it was not only "tendencies" but the actual practice of homosexuality that was involved. Since the Watchtower Society has always condemned the practice of homosexuality, it is surprising that it did not disfellowship the two board members. My guess, as previously stated, is that it wanted to avoid a scandal that would rock the organization.

3

Dfd , more liberal wuie ?

by happy man in

.

have all this nocie in tv about jw and there dfd system lead to a more soft treatnign of at least moral siins, some are pointing on that , i was ther when the harder line was putt inn 1999 on an eldermeeting all over the word, perhaps this bigg media attention have some inpackt on how jw use the dfd system.. internet have also make a revolution fore peopel how have been badley treated, before they have nowan to talk to, sudenly the have the whole word listnign, i dont think this have been understad by the gb before now.. i want also now if soem here now about diffrent handeling if it is po or do how do bad things compared to young pepopelor peopel how thy think not are so aktiv as po and other give ther life fore jw.. if we read rom second chap, we see that the bibel say if you are a judge, "elder" you have no mercy if you do the same thing as the peopel you judge.. i have gett this information from commitee members how they see on this issu, if the acused man seems to regret what he done, even if it is on the commite meeting we must forgive him, it is not how bigg the sinn is how it is most important, it is if he seems repentant.. i have littel difficult to understanad this, beaucause the hard way some young peopel have been treated, .

mizpah

I'm not aware of any change in the rules of disfellowshipment. But sometimes it is handled differently in the congregations. It largely depends on the elders that are involved and the attitude that is shown by the accused.

However, there have been examples of double standards at the highest levels. When Chitty and Greenlees were dismissed from the Governing Body and Bethel for homosexual tendencies they were not disfellowshiped. In contrast, Ray Franz was disfellowshipped for eating a meal with his employer. Ture, the action was taken by the elders in his local congregation. But no one doubts that it was by direction from the Governing Body in Brooklyn.

In the first case, the Governing Body probably wanted to avoid a big scandal. But in the case of Ray Franz, they propbably wanted to eliminate what they perceived as a real threat to the organization.

14

Were you given the tools to survive?

by Swan in

i feel like i was never given the tools to survive.

i feel short-changed and ill-equipped to handle life.

in many ways i still feel like a child.

mizpah

Garybus:

Don't be too hard on your parents. They gave you life. It's a gift that you can use to acheive whatever you want in life. Parents who raised children "in the truth" thought they were giving the very best to their children. For many it was precisely that they wanted their children to live and not die that they followed this course.

There are no easy instructions for parents to raise children. What works for one child does not work for another. What parents owe their children are love and care. What children owe their parents are love and respect. We all make mistakes during our lifetime. But we should not end up regretting that we failed in our most basic relationship, the family.

27

Question about Governing Body

by figureheaduk in

i remember flicking through my ex girlfriends copy of the "proclaimers" book back last year, and there was a page with the pictures of the gb at the time (roundabout 1992 with henschel, jaracz et al).

apart from noticing that the gb was totally comprised of males (well, with the wt's almost neanderthalitic view of women, you wouldnt expect a female contingent within the gb would you?

), i noticed that they all seemed to be white, and, judging by some of the names, probably american.

mizpah

Before national integration, Jehovah's Witnesses in the south observed segregation in their Kingdom Halls and assemblies. The reason that was given at the time was they had to obey "Ceasar's laws" (State Laws) that required this arrangement. After the civil rights movement won the victory for integration, Jehovah's Witnesses followed suit.

I do remember one black "sister" from Florida who lived during that period said that many of the "white brothers" had prejudices against their black "brothers." I saw examples of this in later times. We had an elder who was contemptuous of the black families who were moving into the area. He felt they were "inferior" and not to be trusted with positions of responsibility. No black "brother" ever held a position as long as he was the PO.

In general, I don't think Jehovah's Witnesses were racially prejudiced. But there were individuals among them who were.

46

Preaching Slowdown

by cornish in

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i can remember numerous talks and study articles about how the preaching work would get more and more intense as we near the end.. one so called prophetic illustration that stands out in my mind was when joshua and his men marched around the city each day and then just before the city fell they marched seven times signifying a quickening of the preaching work.. it seems starkingly obvious that the preaching,is in decline amonst jw's,the jw's are seen less and less often in my neighbourhood,it is very rare to see them out street witnesing around the town centres and railway stations,the average jw spends far less time preaching than a decade ago.. it seems like their chief brag is definately on the wain,in favour of other recruitment methods.

mizpah

Peacefulpete:

Oh, you were doing so well until your "PS." I thought that we finally reached a subject of agreement. But except for that...your points are well taken.

143

The Gospel

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:

plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures

if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].

mizpah

The same people who blame God for being a cruel and vindictive one for stepping in and helping his people (Old Testament) charge God with neglect and abandonment when he does not. (New Testament) Their anger is against God more than those who maintain their belief in him. One can only hope that after all the venom is spent, they will return to their Father.

21

Poor JW dies from heat stroke

by reubenfine in

i woman in mesa, arizona whom i've known for over 30 years recently died in her mobile home.

83 years old and too poor to afford the added electricity of air conditioning on her $500/month social security check, she was found dead in her chair with a fan blowing on her.

the elders said they didn't know.

mizpah

Gopher:

I remember the articles that promoted a ministry that included more than just field service. For a short time, members made an effort to visit and sick and elderly. There was more of a spirit of helping one another. But, as I understand it, field service numbers began to drop. And the Watchtower Society once again emphasized that the only service that counted was the field service.

We had an elderly sister who faithfully devoted her time and money to the Watchtower Society. But when she became sick and unable to share in the field service, she was nearly abandoned by those in the congregation. Neighbors wondered why her "church" wasn't doing more for her. They began helping her.

It seems when one's usefulness to the Watchtower Society ends, the person is left to fend on his own. I've seen this happen over and over again in that "loving" organization.

151

Christianity promotes a helpless victim mentality...

by logansrun in

i'm going to be a man of few words here.

christianity, in it's truest, fundamentalist form, promotes an unhealthy and non-productive victim mentality.

the christian feels helpless on his own -- condemned by sin and absolutely unworthy.

mizpah

The Renaissance, the Enlightenment, Reformation, modern Science, modern Democracy, etc. all came out of those nations who professed Christian belief. Evidently, the "helpless victim mentality" of Christianity did not prevent these movements from florishing. Rather, Christianity seems to be the medium which produced them.