Who is Jesus? Is he God?

by BelieverInJesus 396 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • agapa37
    agapa37

    This Question has been debated for centuries. Let's see what Jesus himself has to say about it.

    John 10:30 "Why do you charge me with blasphemy because I, consecrated and sent into the world by the Father, said, ‘I am God’s son’?" ( Jesus claimed to be the son of God, not God.)

    John 20:30-31 " To be sure, Jesus performed many other signs also before the disciples, which are not written down in this scroll. But these have been written down that YOU may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, YOU may have life by means of his name.( Notice that even his disciples knew Jesus to be Gods son.)

    Matthew 16:16 "In answer Simon Peter said: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

    Luke 9:20 "Then he said to them: "YOU, though, who do YOU say I am?" Peter said in reply: "The Christ of God."

    John 6:69 "and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God."

    1 John 4:15 "Whoever makes the confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God."

    These are just a few of many dcriptures that help us to know who Jesus truely is.

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider
    This is entirely unsound and, quite simply, untrue. The words EGW EIMI are normal Greek and in no way call to mind the OT use of the language. For example, in John 9:9 the blind man clearly makes use of the words.

    This thread has been going on for 12 pages allready. If you are so certain of your case, start a thread with it. We`ve allready had lots of threads on the "I am"`s in John.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe
    1 John 4:15 "Whoever makes the confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God."

    I like to look at scriptures like this from a few different angles, and the pertinent one that I would suggest in the context of this thread is what is so special about Jesus being the "Son of God", given that all are sons of God? If he is distinct from angels and from resurrected saints, then what exactly is he???

    What was so special about him assuming the title the Son of God, that caused the pharisees to want to stone him for blasphemy?

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    So far resisted posting on this thread - just popped into say that Jesus is now sat at the right hand of God according to some scriptures

  • BelieverInJesus
    BelieverInJesus

    AGAPA37:

    I take it you haven't read through all 12 pages on this thread. We've allready determined from scripture that Jesus is the Son of God....That's clear.

    You should read through these past 12 pages to also determine that Jesus is not only the Son of God, and also Jesus is God....at the same time.

    It was against the law back then for a person to claim he is God. So, Jesus was, unable to be "sinless" by breaking the law. He let others say he was God. Like you said. Let's see what other's said about him.

    John, himself said Jesus was God. Look at John 1:1, not the NWSCT (new world so-called-translation) but acredited translations like the KJV, NIV, NAS, NLT. John, clearly says Jesus is God. Thomas, after Jesus had resurrected, said he was "my God and Savior!"

    What about the preists? When Jesus was forgiving people sins, the preists said "blasphemy, only God can forgive sins!" We'll the preists were right, only God (Jesus) can forgive sins.

    Jesus says "destory this temple and I will raise it in three days" (speaking of his body) Don't you believe God raised Jesus from the dead? Jesus said "I" will raise it...

    Jesus's name is Emmanuel....which means "God with us."

    Jesus knew people's thoughts too! Jesus rebuked demons, even Michael the ArcAngel dared not rebuke demons (in Jude) when disputing with the devil of where to put Moses body.

    When the disciples kept asking to see God, Jesus said, "you've seen him, in me"

    God is the Alpha and the Omega, Jesus calls himself that in Rev. 22.

    I know it's confusing, but look at it this way; we are created in the image of God, not as God. We don't have the understanding and never will have the comprehensation of how God was formed. Forever he will be mysterious to us, because we are just humans. No scientist can prove or even begin to explain where a soul comes from. We all know a soul exists. And such is the design of God. Just trust and obey, for theirs no other way.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    And on the third day after finally dying, the thread was resurrected

  • siegswife
    siegswife

    I believe that the Word of God mentioned in John is the word that God used to express His Being...saying "I AM".

    That Word, because of containing all that God IS including the Spirit of God's Being, is Alive. The image of God...the perfect reflection of God.

    Of course, all words have a source...and the Word recognizes subjection to the Speaker...while containing the Life that God expressed. Though being in the form of God he didn't ever think that he was in a position to take over. Instead he carried out the creative will expressed in the declaration of Being.

    The Word can't be anything other than what is meant in God's expression of His Self. So the Word of God IS God.

    I mean, what else would God have to talk about besides His own Self when nothing else existed?

    "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."

    Very simple, IMO. It's people who make it complicated and have complicated it even more by calling other things, like the Bible, the word of God.

    The Word is God's expression of Being. "I AM".

    Lea

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider

    Very well put, siegswife.

    When I say something, when something comes out of my mouth, isn`t that "me"? It`s my thoughts articulated in words. Words are thought. And my thoughts are me! How much more interesting "normal" christianity is, than the perverted jw-version.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Mondo1,

    When I asked you this question:

    "If a person in the first century had wanted to write God's Name/Title "I AM" from Exodus 3:14 in Greek, how would it have been written?"

    You then replied and said this:

    "Some form of esomai or egw eimi ho wn."

    So, Mondo1 said that if a First Century Jew was going to write the Name/Title of YAHWEH, "I AM" from Exodus 3:14 in GREEK, it would have been some form of EGW EIMI ho wn or esomai.

    But then, Mondo1 makes this claim (in reply to Hellrider):

    "The words EGW EIMI are normal Greek and in no way call to mind the OT use of the language."

    So, according to Mondo1, the First-Century Jews, when speaking in Greek about, or writing in Greek about God's Name/Title "I AM" found in Exodus 3:14, would probably have used some form of EGW EIMI HO WN, and yet, then Mondo1 claims that "The words EGW EIMI [...] in no way call to mind the OT use of the language."

    You can't have it both ways. That is a flat-out contradiction. Either it was POSSIBLE for EGW EIMI to have called to mind God's Name/Title "I AM" in Exodus 3:14, or it was NOT POSSIBLE. You can't have it both ways. So which is it? Was it possible, or not possible?

    In normal, everyday conversation, it is true, the words "EGW EIMI" did not take on any special significance. But, in the context of a discussion where the Jewish religious leaders had asked Jesus directly "WHO DO YOU MAKE YOURSELF OUT TO BE?" and "ARE YOU GREATER THAN ABRAHAM?", and where Jesus Christ's response was "Before Abraham came into existence, I AM," the words "EGW EIMI" most definitely DID take on special significance.

    If you use the same reasoning that you used above, the word "Kyrios" was a normal Greek word until Jews gave it the special significance of standing for YHWH in the Septuagint and other writings, and until the New Testament writers gave it a special significance toward Jesus.

    And the word "proskyneo" was a normal Greek word until Jews and Christians used it in a context of giving religious devotion and adoration to the Only True God. Then it had extra special significance. In that context, "proskyneo" means something different from just bowing down in respect to a king or other ruler.

    The Greek word "Iesous" was just a normal name until the Lord was born on earth and was given this Name.

    The Greek word "Theos" was a normal Greek word that could refer to any god, but when the Jews or Christians used it to refer to the One True God, it took on extra special meaning (at least to the Jews and Christians).

    It all depends on the CONTEXT that a certain Greek word is used in.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Mondo1 said:

    Yes we are under the moral law, but this is not a matter of morality. Do we observe the Sabbath? No! We are not to worship idols, as the NT makes very clear (1Joh. 5:21), but Jesus is not an idol, he is the Son of God. Hebrews 1 presents a command from God to the angels to worship Jesus. God is making the command, so it is to be obeyed.

    Let me ask you a few questions:

    1:) Were God's Commands in the Mosaic Law against worshiping idols and against worshiping any other gods part of the Moral Law or not? And if they were not part of the Moral Law, then which part were they in? Since you cannot provide a single Scripture that says or implies that God's command to worship ONLY YHWH (found not only in The Torah, but also in Isaiah, repeated by Jesus Himself, and taught by Paul and the Apostles) as was in the section of Law that Christians are no longer under, then you are the one who is making arbitrary classifications.

    2:) What is the definition of "Idolatry" in the New Testament (see 1 John 5:21, Acts 17:16, 1 Corinthians 10:14, Galatians 5:20, and especially Colossians 3:5)

    3:) True, Jesus is NOT an idol, He is the Son of God. However, if Jesus were an exalted creature receiving equal worship with The Father, then according to the Bible, He would have been an idol, and according to the Bible, He also would have been a blasphemer and a false god who would have deserved to be stoned under Mosaic Law. How do you explain this?

    4:) Also, about the Sabbath you keep mentioning, there is a wide variety of viewpoints on this among various Christians. Some believe that the Sabbath Law has been completely done away with for Christians, while others believe that it was changed to Sunday (the day Jesus was resurrected and the day the early Christians held church meetings in homes). However, MOST Christians that I have talked to (and most Christian publications I have read), still believe that God's PRINCIPLE TEACHING BEHIND THE SABBATH still applies to Christians, and that PRINCIPLE TEACHING is that a Christian should set aside ONE DAY a week (irregardless of the day you choose) to focus exclusively on God. So, most Christians, as far as I can tell, and also the Apostle Paul and Jesus, taught that the PRINCIPLE TEACHINGS behind the Mosaic Law STILL apply to Christians today. What are your thoughts on this?

    5:) So, if you had interpreted a certain Scripture in such a way that it appeared that God was commanding you to worship a graven image, would you obey, OR would you seek to find an interpretation that was more in harmony with the rest of the Holy Scriptures, an interpretation that did not contradict God's earlier commands?

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