Revelation 1.17 Jesus divinity? Or just "the first" raised from the dead"? (page 17)

Kenneson

Mondo1,

Does "Mother" know about this? Hmmm.

Deputy Dog

Mondo

The questions are faulty because they assume that I believe Jesus is Michael, which I don't..

The WTBTS does! Should I provide more proof? Would you like to separate yourself even more from the WT?

Mondo:
Fair comment, but you need to play fair in the game called "conversation". I'm sure it's not beyond your intellectual capacity to articulate your feelings on what Jesus was before, during, and after his sojourn on earth. Further, it wouldn't be that hard to substitute that concept into the questions Ellderwho asks.

Do you think the pre-incarnate Jesus was some kind of an angel, for instance (leaving aside whether or not he was specifically named Michael)?

Personally I don't think he is/was Michael, either.

Deputy Dog

LT

I think Mondo, doesn't want to be accountable for or have to explain why he differs from what the WT teaches. Lets see if he has any nerve.

LittleToe

You could be right. But he's anonymous enough here to spill a gut and enjoy the cut and thrust of debate and discussion. While it's challenging, no-one is likely to lose an eye

Mondo1

Littletoe,

The issue is that they assumed something. Never assume. :)

I would argue that Jesus was an angel of sorts, for an angel is merely a messenger and he was undoubtedly "the angel of the convenant" spoken of in Mal. 3:1.

LittleToe

Mondo:

Never assume.

Sounds like a reasonable premise

Regarding the term "angel", we're all familiar with the wide implications of that term, that have less to do with nature and more to do with role, yes?

May I raise 1.Cor.15 again? I quoted it to you before on one of these threads, but you may have missed my implication. Do you conceive that there may be different "kinds" of being in the spirit realm, just as there are different kinds of flesh in the physical realm?

I'm wondering if this is how you perhaps characterise the difference between the father, the Son, and Angels (perhaps even distinguishing between different classes of angel, such as Cherubim, Seraphim, and Archangel). If not, would you mind expanding on how you do view this, please?

Mondo1

Correct. Little to do with nature. Yes I would agree that there can be different kinds of spirits. I'm not sure how you want me to go about characterizing the differences though, because the Bible doesn't do hardly do that at all, and so I could only speculate and I prefer not to do that.

LittleToe

Oh, go on, you know you want to. A little speculation is good for the soul

You've actually partially done it, in that you appear to be presenting the idea that there's a rank order in "kinds" of spirit being that goes along the lines of Father > Son > Angel. I assume I've picked that up correctly, and look to you to correct me if I have not.

To widen this particular point, where do you see ressurected humans fitting into this arrrangement? Do they become the same kind of being as the Son, or some lower order?

I'm not trying to trip you up here, hence I'll candidly state that if they are of the same order as the Son (for example) then I'd then like you to explain how this might relate to the Son's role as "God", if indeed it has any impact at all. But I don't want to jump the gun. I'm just attempting to show you where my mind is going with all this.

Revelation 1.17 Jesus divinity? Or just "the first" raised from the dead"?

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