evolution or creation? lets talk...

by Sam87 537 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  AuldSoul

  AlanF: Present two facts, with supporting references, that give strong evidence in favor of special creation.

  How about one fact that STRONGLY supports creative processes?

  AlanF: On the other hand, I can cite dozens of facts that support evolution.

  I respectfully submit that you can't STRONGLY support evolution as source with even a single fact. You can only support evolution as a vehicle for diversity. I understand that you are here only perpetuating the false dichotomy that you perceive the "other side" launched into, but I prefer not to let others choose my arguments for me.

  Dido,

  Earlier on this thread I mentioned the Wadoma (or Vadoma) tribe of Zimbabwe, Africa as an example of a sudden appearance mutation that is seen as beneficial to the society. In other words, from their perspective the people with this particular "defect" on their 7th chromosome are not defective at all. The incidence of this mutation among the population has provably increased over the last 1,000 years. However, it arrived suddenly and produces a VERY different bone structure, particularly in the extremities.

  It is doubtful that we would find remains of the earliest period of this mutation in the fossil record were we to look for it some 80,000 years in the future, and in the interveing time it is very possible this tribe could speciate beyond the ability to produce viable offspring after mating with humans. As I stated, it is simply an accident of timing that we caught this tribe at a point in their progression toward speciation where it could be recorded that they were, in fact, not yet speciated.

  Were we to come upon them much later we would have simply identified them as a hominid species with a distinctive (as opposed to defective) 7th chromosome. We would, no doubt, have marveled at their capacity for human thought and societal organization, and been amazed at how nearly their makeup matched out own. But no matter how far back in the fossil record we went, this distinct 7th chromosome would have appeared in all specimen recovered, making it seem that while humans and these beings lived alongside each other, they were not the same.

  To the evolutionists:

  I am still waiting for an evolutionist to answer the three questions I asked on this thread.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  czarofmischief

  I'm pretty sure that not only did we evolve in a lineal descent; all life passes genetic material from side to side - with a certain animal picking up genetic material somehow from the surrounding life, etc.

  All life is genetically pretty close anyway, the transfer of genetic material into living creatures is the basis of gene therapy treatments, and the swapping process could conceivably happen naturally.

  This may be why Irish girls are so dense and nutritious, having over the centuries absorbed the genetic material of the potato. Mwa-hahahahaaaa!!

  The creation story COULD be interpreted in the light of divine self-awareness being breathed into animal life "the dust of the earth" at a specific point in time. While humans have obviously been around for much longer than 6k, it is astonishing that all of civilization seems to have started all at once at around the same time. Some kind of evolutionary event occurred to make us suddenly technologically capable, even to the point of teaching some of our animals to evolve into smarter, more self-aware and socially conscious creatures.

  Just saying, the old legends say the gods came down and taught us what we know and then they left. Maybe our bright ape ancestors were suddenly moved a notch or two up the scale with a little genetic "bump" and then left to their own devices? And maybe through genetic transfer some of that brightness is being passed on to animals that live in close proximity to us? How's that for a crazy idea...

  CZAR
• 

  Caedes

  I am still waiting for an evolutionist to answer the three questions I asked on this thread.

  Auld soul

  sorry old chap, I must have missed that post could you repeat them (sorry I really don't want to read through this thread again!)

  I particularly enjoyed 'don't fear the list' I think I'm ready to become one with the list, but what happens afterward, is there some kind of spiritual reward? A list 'afterlife' if you like? I mean I don't want to jump straight onto the list without considering all the ramifications for my immortal avatar soul?!

  Top hat

  feel free to bow out if you have nothing useful to add.
• 

  AlanF

  AuldSoul said:

  : How about one fact that STRONGLY supports creative processes?

  : I respectfully submit that you can't STRONGLY support evolution as source with even a single fact. You can only support evolution as a vehicle for diversity. I understand that you are here only perpetuating the false dichotomy that you perceive the "other side" launched into, but I prefer not to let others choose my arguments for me.

  I'm not sure what you're getting at. Please elaborate.

  AlanF
• 

  AlanF

  AuldSoul said:

  : I am still waiting for an evolutionist to answer the three questions I asked on this thread.

  I assume you're referring to your post # 4780. If so, then the answers are trivially "yes". You answered them yourself.

  Since the answers are trivially "yes", what's your point?

  AlanF
• 

  Seeker4

  Whew! This thread goes on! It's like watching two nasty children - Dido and Tophat - shouting nonsense at the adults!

  If there were ever a thread that epitomized the ignorance of the typical creationist, these two are simply perfect. It's so sad for them! I think I'll recommend it for those folks on the evolution fence.

  I continued to be so reminded of the Witness approach to genuine science - the utter lack of credibility in their arguments. I find myself just wanting to skip this thread, their posts are so angry and pathetic, but I keep getting drawn back - it's grossly fascinating, like watching a car wreck or insects swarm. Disgusting, but you can't take your eyes away.

  I love the section where under_believer got Dido to admit belief in the basic tenents of evolution, though from her response, I'm not sure she really understood the questions.

  Dido and Top Hat, you have no idea how you two have embarrassed yourselves on this post! I do hope you were maybe a little drunk through it all, and will wake up sober and realize what you've done. Watching someone argue about something that they admittedly know nothing about, at least in Dido's case, is really sad. In Tophat's case, he professes a knowledge of evolution, but fails to display it in any of his posts. Just as sad to watch.

  This thread probably does need to be put out of its misery!

  S4
• 

  Satanus

  In this thread, 4 very strong exhibits have been presented as evidence for evolution; 3 by alanf, one by leolaia. These are indisputable, direct, simple facts. Can creationists do anything similar, anything w god's fingerprints on it? Dido, the wisest one?

  S
• 

  Dansk

  Hi S4,

  TopHat is a woman!

  Ian
• 

  Big Tex

  I continued to be so reminded of the Witness approach to genuine science - the utter lack of credibility in their arguments. I find myself just wanting to skip this thread, their posts are so angry and pathetic, but I keep getting drawn back - it's grossly fascinating, like watching a car wreck or insects swarm. Disgusting, but you can't take your eyes away.

  Sort of a "Plan 9 from Outer Space" approach to the discussion, eh?

  I approached this thread from the beginning as if I knew nothing about either subject (which isn't hard to pretend; my O levels would look more like levels).

  So I find somewhat frustrating that some on this thread who believe in a literal creation, as described in Genesis, refuse to discuss their belief. Repeatedly saying how boring the thread has become is, well ... boring.

  There has been a mountain of evidence, and a real willingness (even eagerness) to actually discuss the subject by people who believe in evolution. Too bad as it could be a very interesting discussion. I'd be curious to see a response to Alan's post about presenting facts or some proof regarding their claims. Apparently there is none.

  What's that old saying about "better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and prove it"?
• 

  stevenyc

  AlanF: The Ancestor's Tale, Richard dawkins This is a great book for the layman to understand the process of evolution, I would highly recommend it to anyone just wanting to know what all the fuss is about. steve