What if she never leaves JWs? (The interminable waiting period...)

by AuldSoul 87 Replies latest jw friends

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    What a fascinating thread. I really, really wish I had the Internet in 1989! The years I spent wasted on my own. Oiy!

    As so many others, I experienced the alienation that comes with leaving the WTS while my partner didn't. The experience pretty much tore my heart out. We survived a couple of years, but the marked change occured when the first year had passed. It's as if she tumbled to the fact that I wasn't going back to the WTS. Just as your wife, she would come out with comments along the lines of "I miss the man I married", which in retrospect I now see as tantamount to emotional blackmail. I tried everything, the soft approach, the tough approach, but ultimately she was too close to her family (whom she Pioneered with, and so saw every day).

    Forgive me Auld Sould for just a moment, but I've read this entire thread from beginning to end, and this comment resonated most with me. For the few couple of years I was out, I too heard Nina say things like this, as well as "Please come back. This may be the last Memorial we're all together." This was usually accompanied by lots of tears.

    However unlucky I may be, and whatever mistakes I've made in this life that have condemned me to eternal damnation (or at least on permanent ignore), the one area I struck gold with was my woman. The reason we are still together, despite this tremendous pull towards the organization was I knew if I asked her to come with me and leave, if I said our marriage and future happiness absolutely depended on it, I knew she would leave with me.

    But I never once even hinted at it.

    I didn't because I truly believed, in my nerdy, idealistic, pie-in-the-sky, heart of hearts that she would eventually see what I saw and leave on her own. And then we would be together as we were.

    Gotta tell ya, after 13 years that idealism was being strained. But I was lucky, and the dysfunction of this religion finally touched her. She found a reason, on her own, to leave.

    This now, is my rambling point. I submit that the spouse that doesn't leave with us, didn't see what we saw. Sometimes that's a doctrinal issue, but sometimes it's on a more personal level (and sometimes the two intersect). But they won't leave on their own until he/she finds their own reason for leaving.

    Nina's father was an elder for 40 years, partook at Memorial, convention parts the whole 9 yards. She had been raised around the old guard, and while she saw the organization's dysfunction hurt me terribly, it didn't touch her. So there was no reason for her to make that ultimate, terrible, fightening decision. She didn't, until she had to.

    Auld Soul, I don't pretend to have the answer for you. Your wife sounds like a real sweetie. From what you've told me, she sounds like she truly cares about you. I won't offer an opinion about your relationship. I will say however, that until she finds a reason that means something to her, something so extraordinary that she is willing to face not only death, but eternal damnation by Jehovah God himself, I'm afraid she's going to stay tied to this organization. Nina would have left with me, but she would have always stayed tied in her heart. That I gave her time, and let her find her own reason, gave her the chance to see the sect for the sham it is. However, I also realize I was very, very lucky and in retrospect it could have turned out very badly for us.

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    I made up my mind to have a good life and enjoy myself in spite of anyone else on the planet. My wife could be a Witness and no problem, I'll still have a good life. Nothing anyone on the planet does will affect me.

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul
    Big Tex: The reason we are still together, despite this tremendous pull towards the organization was I knew if I asked her to come with me and leave, if I said our marriage and future happiness absolutely depended on it, I knew she would leave with me.

    That's just it, I don't know my wife would—I even think it is very likely that she wouldn't. If I knew that she would, I could wait a long time for it to happen. That I don't know leaves me wondering how long I am willing to stay tied to that organization for what seems a vain hope (insert "paradise earth" in place of "wife" and I may as well be a JW). Maybe we just have to have some really tough conversations.

    She doesn't like to communicate about these things, but it seems pretty plain to me that we are doomed as a couple if no communication happens about such a significant part of our lives.

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    Maybe Gary's suggestion about me having a life that she is no part of will be good for her.

  • toreador
    toreador

    Gary Busselman, is your wife still a witness?

    Ross,

    I would talk to Hillary Step about this if you havent already. He took 17 years to get his wife to see the WTS for what it was and leave the borg, if I remember right. He may have some "real" help for you by way of advice.

    I really feel for you and wish you the very best. I would say the advice to take it slow and wait at "least" a year was very good advice. I with I could have went back and did the same thing, not about my marriage but how I left the WTS.

    Tor

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    is your wife still a witness?

    Not now:-)

  • toreador
    toreador

    is your wife still a witness?

    Not now:-)

    Thats good to hear! Mine isn't either. We left at the same time but then she was with me when we talked to the elder and CO and she seen first hand just how bull*hit it all was. That helped a lot. When one is all the way out and the other "in" it can get really tough. Its way better to do it together. I bared my soul to my wife on the questions I had and did not keep a single thing from her. I think Auld Soul went about things different and he is pretty much all the way out. Communication is the absolute key AuldSoul, in my honest opinion. You have to keep the lines open and get her to see why you have questions. Instead of making out and out points against the WTS, if you can raise questions. In your case it may have went to far to go this route.

    Tor

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    That's just it, I don't know my wife would—I even think it is very likely that she wouldn't. If I knew that she would, I could wait a long time for it to happen. That I don't know leaves me wondering how long I am willing to stay tied to that organization for what seems a vain hope (insert "paradise earth" in place of "wife" and I may as well be a JW). Maybe we just have to have some really tough conversations.

    She doesn't like to communicate about these things, but it seems pretty plain to me that we are doomed as a couple if no communication happens about such a significant part of our lives.

    I understand.

    Have you talked to her, frankly, about what your father says to her? I agree that his "talks" with her are highly inappropriate. I would have been furious if my father-in-law had talked to Nina like that. Dunno, might even have gone Cro-Magnon.

    I think I know where you're headed, but before you get there, I want you to give it more time. Lots more time. When feelings are up, life, the universe and the restaurant at the end, feels much bigger than it is.

    I look back on my own life, and how often the darkness and depression still comes on. If I made decisions while I'm in that blackness I wouldn't be here, much less married.

    I wish I had a magic solution for you, I really do. My best advice right now is frank and open discussion. Not just once, but again and again until you both know.

    Chris

  • cruzanheart
    cruzanheart
    the one area I struck gold with was my woman

    Awwwwww, sweetie! I feel the same way. I KNEW I had a wonderful lifetime companion in my husband and, while I was not ready to leave what I still thought was THE truth, I never once thought of leaving Chris.

    And I will always be grateful to him for being patient enough to wait for me to make up my own mind. We're both so damned stubborn that if either of us had given in to the other, we always would have wondered if it was the right decision and I think that might have done more damage than the 15 years did.

    My husband has always given me the space to be who I am, without judgment, which is why he will always be my best friend first and foremost. Sometimes he would push me a little bit if he knew I needed it, but in matters of the religion he would make his point (he always won the arguments) and then back off to let me digest it. Toward the end, when he could see I was really seeing the fallacies, he'd print out threads from JWD and leave them lying around. I can't resist reading . . . ANYTHING . . . so I'd start reading while I was making breakfast and got really interested.

    Because of my background all the snubs and rudeness heaped on me personally by the congregations did not drive me out. I was used to that and felt it was something to be endured. But when the rude behavior was extended to my children, that did it. Jackson, our son, had a rare virus that turned into post-viral arthritis which kept him in screaming pain for 6 weeks. He was just 6 years old at the time. We'd been up night and day with him, padding his bed with pillows so he wouldn't move during the night because that would make him wake up screaming from the pain in his joints. He finished Kindergarten in a wheelchair. (Fortunately, when the virus had run its course he was fine, no permanent damage except psychological. He will never forget how bad it was.)

    Well, I'd missed a month of meetings with no phone calls from any of the "loving brotherhood" but I decided one Sunday to drag myself and the kids to the meeting. Jackson was in his wheelchair and out of 150+ people at that Kingdom Hall, only THREE came up to me to ask what happened to him. I was absolutely livid with anger and as I was leaving, the third person -- the Presiding Overseer -- came up and asked brusquely, "what happened to him?" I started to tell him, and he cut me off after about 5 seconds with: "Well, Jehovah will give you strength to endure" and he walked off.

    I went home and told Chris that was it, I was never going back. He said "welcome home" and we lived happily ever after!

    Nina

  • toreador
    toreador
    I was absolutely livid with anger and as I was leaving, the third person -- the Presiding Overseer -- came up and asked brusquely, "what happened to him?" I started to tell him, and he cut me off after about 5 seconds with: "Well, Jehovah will give you strength to endure" and he walked off.

    I went home and told Chris that was it, I was never going back. He said "welcome home" and we lived happily ever after!

    Nina

    Isnt it amazing how they preach what a loving brotherhood JW's have and yet they far from practice it. We haven't had so much as a phone call since about 3 months after stopping meeting attendance. I cant believe I believed the crock for so long.

    Tor

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