What if she never leaves JWs? (The interminable waiting period...)

by AuldSoul 87 Replies latest jw friends

fullofdoubtnow

((((AuldSoul))))
I have nothing to add, except to wish you all the best.
love
Linda
Warlock

A.S.
My wife told me a while ago, that if I leave "the truth", that there would really be no reason for us to be married. Now, I know she was upset and I know she just said it to try and get me to start going to the meetings again. If it REALLY ever came down to it, I wouldn't make the first move. I would make HER make the first move.
I think in that case SHE would have all the explaining to do, not me.
In your case, why don't you wait and see what happens? Whatever you do, I would advise you NOT to be the one to make the first move to seperate, divorce, whatever. Just give it more time, and let HER work it out with herself, because obviously, she has alot of resentment towards you.
Warlock
minimus

AS, you seem to be a VERY in tune person. Very sensitive to words, actions, reactions. Very perceptive. You KNOW that living with a JW cultist is very difficult and different than being in a normal marriage. You know just as well as we all do that the JW mindset is unlike any other. You have to have elephant thick skin to deal with a JW mate. You don't have it, imho. Regarding our looking back at why people marry each other and wondering whether or not they would've as the years went by, what can you do?? Looking at things from her perspective, she's probably very discouraged that she is by herself in her life. You're not there for her and her spirituality. She feels betrayed by you and probably thinks you don't love her as much as you do yourself. (All faulty thinking). JWs are conditioned to believe that if you leave the Organization, you leave (Jehovah) God. The new view, even if you're not df'd is to TREAT one like yourself in the same way. REMEMBER, SHE BELONGS TO A CULT!.....The question is, can you be happily married to a cultist?
MegaDude

I just got tired of being a prisoner in my own home. I was trying to avoid being DF'd or being forced to DA. I didn't want to lose my JW family members. I was putting my wife through college and doing a good job of supporting us. I agreed to be "turned in" to the elders once. The elders came to my house and I told them everything: that I had talked to Ray Franz, that I read anti-Watchtower books, and that I planned to start visiting churches to see how the other half lived. The PO was a teddy bear of a man. He had more affection for people than just being an enforcer of the rules. He even hugged me when he left. He declined to do anything despite my "apostate" confession. But then the wife switched congregations. I started getting up early on Sunday mornings and visiting churches which angered her. I only considered myself a spiritual tourist but the wife knew I wasn't coming back to the JWs and she said she was going to turn me in again. She did. I met with the elders and was told I had to be completely silent on my disagreements with WT doctrine. So I hastily wrote out a DA letter in two lines and handed it to them. I refused to be silenced. They were really shocked. Overnight my JW siblings dumped me, the in-laws called and said goodbye and that they were not going to have anything to do with me anymore. Then I asked my wife to leave. She went home to her JW parents. After a few years of trying to work it out, we divorced. She dated a "worldly" guy and converted him to the JWs and married him.
Perhaps a lot of it depends on how much pain tolerance and patience you have. She may come out later, but maybe she never will. What does your gut tell you? Also, can you hang in there and still love her? Are you debating the Watchtower and having heated arguments about your divided religious views a lot of the time?
There are some JW men who have figured out the WT is a scam but patiently and gently kept going to meetings with their spouse and sharing tidbits of vital info with their wife and family until the light clicked on for them. This has really worked before. I wasn't the type of person who could this but I wish I had given it a try. I couldn't tolerate being in the kingdom hall when I knew it was a scam. I wanted to tell everybody there what I knew and wake them up.
BizzyBee
and she would explain it was about respect. So, I would ask her who it was that she thought was lacking in respect for me. She said it wasn't that, it was how much she felt like I deserved to be ... then she would trail off.
Respect of all kinds is so important to the health of a relationship - I think it deserves a deeper look.
- Do you really and truly respect her and the choices she makes?
- With your considerable depth of understanding of JW issues, how can you respect someone who goes along with the program like a sheep?
- Does her lack of respect for your current situation add to your anxiety (as you expressed in another thread)? You are going through a monumental life-transition. Is your help-mate there by your side, supporting you and letting you know she believes in you? Or is she contributing to your own self-doubts? Is she kicking you while you're down?
- Is loving someone 'more than breathing' a thing apart from these issues? IOW, your own self-respect would lead you to confidently expect that your life partner believes in you and demonstrate that belief through her actions. At a time like this, she's throwing Santa Claus in your face?
Another facet to explore:
- You both married JW's. Is it possible that you, and/or. she, married the qualifications your represented rather than the person? No offense implied - it happens all the time. How can you put this back on track when she is still judging you in the context of your performance as a JW?
- Are you 'unevenly yoked?'
Good luck, Auld.
drew sagan

If there is one thing I have to say that is the most important in the struggle a married man has with a JW wife it is winning her respect.

JWs are taught not to respect anything that is not WTS related. This includes their marriage mates when they cross over to the 'dark side'.

You love your wife, but the Watchtower can do a good job in making her loose respect for you. It seems the shallowness of the JW lifestyle has already had a good hold on her while you where an active JW. It's a tough situation for sure.

Something I did to gain her respect was to not challenge any JW beliefs but instead simply discuss beliefs that where different (but not confrontational). Let me explain.
I would share illustrations, scriptures, all kinds of spiritual things with here that would not be openly objectable to a JW but at the same time would never be said in a JW environment. One way is to simply focus more on discussion about Christ and his sacrifice. Another way I found effective was to simply share the reasons why people believe different things about the Bible from JWs. JWs never hear the other side discuss why they believe what they do (trinity, hellfire, all kinds of stuff). You don't have to go into a conversation to defend such teachings, but you can always at least show a JW that the issues at hand are never as black and white as the WTS makes them out to be. I think breaking open this black and white thinking really helped me alot.

I went through allot of this stuff and it was no fun. But one day all of the work I had done and the patience I had shown paid off. Now this is one of her favorite websites.

With patience you can have victory in this battle.

-drew
Doubting Bro

It is a question of whether I can indefinitely tolerate her disapproval, her disappointment, her regret over my choices. I've had this conversation with her, and she said we can work through it. I haven't seen any indication of an abatement in her disapproval, thus far.
I think this is a key statement. You've spoken with her and she said that she's willing to work through it. The question will be what exactly does this mean? Does it mean that she'll ultimately come to respect (maybe not agree with) your stance? Or does it mean she still holds out hope that you'll return to the flock?
Your wife is a life long JW, right? That sort of programming can take years to reverse. Take me for example. I've know for years there were serious problems, but still thought Jehovah would fix things. It has been only recently that I've accepted that JWs don't have the truth. I think her disapproval is probably a natural reaction to your rejecting both of your lifelong beliefs. Also, as pointed out, the only prestige allowed females is through their husbands. So, being married to someone who doesn't believe any longer is a status blow.
Auld Soul, you're obviously an intelligent, kind hearted man. A good husband. It really does sound like you both love each other a great deal. My advice, for what its worth, is to keep being kind and patient. Hopefully, she'll come around to at least accepting your stance.
OUTLAW

AuldSoul..Your in a tough spot..Been there,done that,got the T-shirt..On top of all the other difficulties,it seems there is an underlying issue of race..Why would that bother her?..A religion can`t cover that up indefinitly..There will be many things to consider,that you havn`t even thought of yet...OUTLAW
LovesDubs

We all were aware of the strata of importance that exists in the JWs tho they vehemently deny it. There are losers and there are the popular ones, there are powerful ones and there are ok...the losers again...and the people who went to Bethel are heros and their parents are considered celebrities along with them. The elders and the elders wives (read Desperate Housewives) were held on pedestals and becoming an MS was like becoming a Mini Elder and was like ALMOST being an elder and the women were almost like the elders wives. Its a status symbol. I think like when women have an idea in their heads about what they want their weddings to be like and they cant really ever live up to the image they created in their heads?
You might like to ask her directly, "Do you love me for who I am, or do you love me with the condition that you can train me and mold me and make me what you think will be deserving of your love? And if I dont change to suit your image am I no longer deserving of your love? What will happen then?"
Im appalled at the self important attitude the JWs have. My husband who beat the crap outta me last January, and who was a drunk until that point, and never goes to meetings, or reads, or preaches...mocks everything having to do with birthdays and holidays, and angels and heaven and Jesus that the rest of us love. He harrumphs at the TV, he harrumphs when someone says "Thank God!" He sticks up his nose at his Christian EXJW mother and sees himself as "doing what Jehovah wants him to".... My mind cant even wrap itself around the arrogance.
Its their way or the highway....and its a very lonely highway indeed.
AuldSoul

BizzyBee:
You both married JW's. Is it possible that you, and/or. she, married the qualifications your represented rather than the person? No offense implied - it happens all the time. How can you put this back on track when she is still judging you in the context of your performance as a JW?
Are you 'unevenly yoked?'
Yes. I think she married me for the JW qualifications I represented, first and foremost, with other intrinsic qualities playing second fiddle. I have no clue how to put that back on track (if it ever was on track) while she (1) is still judging me in that context and (2) per my father's instructions will not allow me to discuss anything spiritual or Scriptural with her.
On the second point, that is what I am trying to puzzle out. I had not thought it was possible until this past week. The "Santa" dig was last night.
MegaDude: I wanted to tell everybody there what I knew and wake them up.
I was the same way. I couldn't get the image of watching people ignorantly drink from a poisoned well out of my head. How could I watch that and just think, "Well, it is their choice, after all."
drew sagan: Something I did to gain her respect was to not challenge any JW beliefs but instead simply discuss beliefs that where different (but not confrontational). Let me explain.

I would share illustrations, scriptures, all kinds of spiritual things with here that would not be openly objectable to a JW but at the same time would never be said in a JW environment. One way is to simply focus more on discussion about Christ and his sacrifice. Another way I found effective was to simply share the reasons why people believe different things about the Bible from JWs. JWs never hear the other side discuss why they believe what they do (trinity, hellfire, all kinds of stuff). You don't have to go into a conversation to defend such teachings, but you can always at least show a JW that the issues at hand are never as black and white as the WTS makes them out to be.
Something tells me I have every reason to wish I'd met you sooner. The time for first impressions has long since passed by. She has lent an ear, on more than one occasion, to my parent's encouragement toward legal separation on the grounds of spiritual endangerment (allowed by JWs). My father's okay on that choice would relieve any concerns over congregational problems for her as a result. She has thrown this suggestion up as a block to any Scriptural/spiritual discussions.
Minimus: The question is, can you be happily married to a cultist?
"Happily" being the qualifier I have only recently been willing to explore. I am the only one who can answer that, ultimately, and the only one who has to live with my choice. Just as my lovely wife is the only one who has to live with the outcomes of her choices. I am fearful that "happy" and "cultist" don't belong in proximity in any sentence I would utter.
Many thanks to everyone trying to help me navigate this issue.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul

What if she never leaves JWs? (The interminable waiting period...)

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