Right. I suspect the Mexican government wants the poor mestizos out, which is a reason so little is being done. It's a problem for them and they don't want to deal with it.
Farmers Branch Tx. assault on illegal immigrants (Mexicans)
by hambeak 77 Replies latest social current
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Confession
Shame this issue cannot be discussed rationally and in a quasi-adult fashion.
I second that. And, while I know racism exists, it comes no where close to being the issue here. I have to disagree with my friend Sandy a bit on this. The pertinent issues (as I understand them) are these...
1) Many persons (particularly of the radical Islamic world) hate the U.S. so much, they would love to bring great destruction upon it. We're doing everything possible to keep them from it, but if there is a major, illegal flow through our border to the south, it is only a matter of time before such ones successfully make it through and succeed in this destruction.
2) It's simple: you become legal, you pay taxes, you may receive the services those taxes pay for. It also gives you the right to be a part of the American system, which includes accepting American jobs. I know illegal Mexicans perform many jobs in this country, and--although a percentage of these jobs may be such that many Americans don't want them--plenty of them are jobs that would be accepted by "legal" Americans--those who do pay taxes and have taken the steps to become legal.
This has nothing to do with "true feelings." It has everything to do with "rational thought." I do not blame a very poor Mexican family for wanting to come here. I just want them to do so legally--as I would expect anyone to do. And I am frustrated with the fact that it takes so long to become legal--although I understand it takes a lot longer when you're illegally residing here than when you go through the process from Mexico. (Is this true?)
It's frustrating to think that, after presenting the above important issues and others, some will sneer, suggesting that the real reason has to do with racism. Is it true that some self-avowed racists do in fact enjoy it that laws are in place to keep out those they would racially discriminate against? I'm sure it is. But I'm not going to hold my tongue on these crucial issues out of fear that someone would accuse me of being such a racist. I don't think I'm better than anyone else. In fact, if there were some way to contribute to some effort that would help make the legalization process simpler for law-abiding Mexicans, I would do so.
Any thoughts?
Confession
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Sparkplug
crux of the matter Mexico should make it more appealing to stay home
Having friends deep in Raices Mexico, I can say that is not about to happen. When we go visit, there is one telephone in the whole town. If you want a ahower you need to make an appointment with the lady who has the 'nice' shower in town. There are no paved roads. We sleep about 7 of us across 2 twin beds with the springs poking through.
There is a good 6 inch gap from the floor to the start of the door and it can get freezing cold. Each border guard stops us and we have to pay either money or with our belongings to get into and out of Mexico just to visit them. If we take them items we have to make it look as if the items are our own going in and then just leave it all there as we leave out. Before we cross the border we do have to get out and make sure nobody had put anything in our car. (drugs etc) We check the bumper and places such as the tire well. The guards and govenment are so blantantly crooked. It is pathetic. Just plain sorry. If you have two, they want one. (whatever it is)
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SixofNine
"you suggest a state/country should not be able to declare an official language? This is just absurd."
Not any more absurd as suggesting that "other" people should just magically learn a new language. Could you do so? Would you do so?
I've seen no evidence to suggest that current Mexican and SA immigrants, legal or illegal, are as a group behaving any differently w/respect to language than any other generations of immigrants in America from Europe, Africa, Asia, wherever.
Like reality would have predicted, the adult immigrants have a very difficult time, and the kids sound like,.... well, they sound like they grew up in Farmers Branch TX.
Some adults will manage to learn the language fluently, others will always struggle. A gift with languages, or the converse, does not a good citizen make.
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XJW4EVR
As a funny aside, did any one see the time traveling illegal alien episode on South Park the other night? Truly hillarious. Matt & Trey have a great gift at lampooning both sides in their episodes dealing with controversial topics.
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Big Tex
This has nothing to do with "true feelings." It has everything to do with "rational thought." I do not blame a very poor Mexican family for wanting to come here. I just want them to do so legally--as I would expect anyone to do.
I don't particularly like driving 25 down a rather wide street in my subdivision. Am I supposed to get a free pass to break it because it's a law that is inconvenient to me?
I'm not in favor of the "shipping 'em all back" philosphy. As I mentioned previously, we tried a blanket amnesty and it didn't work. So I don't see that as a workable option either. I tend to think the best solution is a multi-faceted one. Offer those already living here illegally an avenue of legalizing their status and that means standing in line, working through the bureacracy, spending time and money to legalize their status. But I also think the entire immigration process should be streamlined and be more user friendly than it currently is. I've got a friend who spent 2 years and hundreds of dollars to become a U.S. citizen. I think that's just ridiculous.
So why can't we cut through all that nonsense and make the process easier?
I also think the border patrol should be increased by whatever it takes to secure the border. Spend the money it will be worth it. But now, with the courts making law, after knee-jerk local municipalities struggle to address a real problem, these measures won't be taken and the problem will continue.
I too don't blame one bit someone from an improverished country wanting to come here in hopes of a better life. God knows I'd feel the same if I were in their shoes. But I strongly object to illegal shortcuts. If you want to come here, do it legally.
I honestly, in my heart of hearts, do not see how that position is racist or makes me an enemy of people of color.
Chris
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daystar
Not any more absurd as suggesting that "other" people should just magically learn a new language. Could you do so? Would you do so?
Of course that's absurd. If they had come here legally, however, they would be on track to learning the language.
Straw man. No one expects anyone to "magically" learn the language, I hope.
But, were I to move to another country to live, I certainly would learn as much as I could, as soon as I could. At least after being there a year, I would expect I'd be able to hold somewhat a normal conversation in the native language of the country, whether is is the "official" language or not.
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sandy
I never said illegal immigration is not a problem. I also admit that my emotions play a big part in my stand on this. But unless you are of a minority in America it is harder for you to truly see all the racism that exists. You can live in your little world and pretend it's not there or not really that bad if that makes you feel better.
If your child was hungry and you had no money to buy food what would you do? If nobody was looking and there was $$ or food right in front of you, would you steal it? If it meant that you or your child would not go hungry, would you steal it?
Most of the illegal immigrants are not coming here with the attitude that America is a "free ride" for them. The ones with that mentality . . . I would be the first to send them back. They do not come here with intent to steal and take advantage of America, they are not trying to harm anyone here. Their families are in need of basic necessities of life which they cannot get in their own country. So they come here and work hard and live on very little but more than they can get back home.
So, yes I feel compassion for them, and not just because I am Mexican American but because I am human.
And if Americans will do the lower paying jobs then why don't they? Why don't they go out and stand in front of home Depot looking for work? If they really wanted/needed these jobs they would and can take them back.
And I am not calling everyone who wants to stop illegal immigration racist.
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daystar
This topic is not going much of anywhere. The last I'm saying on this is that I agree with everything Big Tex wrote here - http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/14/124101/2195419/post.ashx#2195419
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SixofNine
"But, were I to move to another country to live, I certainly would learn as much as I could, as soon as I could. At least after being there a year, I would expect I'd be able to hold somewhat a normal conversation in the native language of the country, whether is is the "official" language or not."
You would do that only to the extent you are linguistically capable, and circumstances availed you of opportunity. Precisely the situation with Hispanic immigrants in Texas.
I am used to the frustration of dealing with hispanic immigrants who speak little or no english, as on occasion, I hire them. I'd love it if they could communicate well. But that's just what it is, a frustration. I expect myself, and everyone else, to be bigger than that. And when we are, guess what; work gets done, understanding happens, and we all survive the experience none the worse for wear.