My mom took my son to KH after I told her not to

by unbeliever 100 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Scully

  I can understand why you're so upset, unbeliever. I can also see why your baby's father doesn't "get" how serious this is too.

  Maybe ask him how he feels about being used and manipulated by her to get what she wants, in complete defiance of your expressed wishes. That's not a position anyone would want to be in. The fact that he trusted her to go on an outing with the baby actually says something to me about him. Not that I know how well he and your mother know one another, but still, I would question his judgement in allowing someone you are cautious about to have unfettered access to your child.

  If you had said to baby's dad: "I do not want the baby to be exposed to tuberculosis, because he is a baby and his immune system cannot handle the exposure" would he have gone against your wishes? I doubt it. When you boil it down to the basics, there's not much difference between exposing a child to a contagious life-threatening disease and exposing them to insidious, alienating, mind-altering doctrine. Both have the potential to destroy your child's life and your relationship with him, because a child does not have the capacity to distinguish between reality and the fiction of religious doctrine. Your wishes, as the mother, deserve to be regarded with the utmost respect.

  That being said, you really need to make it clear to your mother and your baby's dad that she is not to have access to your child unless YOU are there to supervise the interaction. She's made it plain that she is not trustworthy and that she needs to be supervised.

  I would make her wait a few months before she gets a chance to see your son again and make sure she understands that you are in charge of your son's values and belief system, not her.

  If my non JW grandparents ever tried to take us to church (or even to an event in a church), my JW parents would have gone through the roof and be just as outraged as you are now.

  The bottom line is that it is not up to the grandparents to usurp the parent's role and decisions. That is a boundary violation and it has to stop.
• 

  Paralipomenon

  It does seem sneaky and underhanded, but given the young age of the child no lasting harm. It does raise a issue that you need to address with your mother. Namely, respect for your wishes.
  
  Cutting her off is an easy way out. It shows no tolerance or forgiveness on your part.
  
  You have every right to be upset, but you should calm down and think about it, then address it with your mother.
  
  You need to find out her motive for going against your wishes, does she feel responsible for the child's spiritual welfare?
  Was she just being a proud grandmother?
  
  Inform her of the breach of trust and ask if she will continue to try to undermine your parenting. Ask her what she would have done if her mother tried to undermine her as a parent.
  
  Maybe she'll see realize that she's putting her relationship with her daughter and grand daughter in jeopardy and back of from the "theocratic warfare".
• 

  LittleToe

  I don't do it very often, but I'm going to play the sperm card...

  Chances are that hubby thinks that your feelings on the subject are irrational. Its unlikely that you'll convince him otherwise, now, without a great deal of effort. This is why it sometimes takes a third party to help the understanding process. Someone neutral, saying exactly the same things, might ellicit a better response.

  I'm not saying its right, but most of us guys are wired this way. It takes an act of will to overcome it. Feel free to pity us.

  Merry:That's a really good idea, especially if its just plainspeaking without going overboard.
• 

  LittleToe

  I just realised that I need to apologise (DOH!). I should have started my posts with some appreciation for your concerns. You have every right be feel upset. You know the issues at stake, whereas your hubby does not and your mother is indoctrinated to be oblivious to them.

  {{{hugs}}}
• 

  Sunspot

  You're the parent in charge of your son's life and welfare and your mom willfully disrespected your wishes. She was sneaky and deceitful. Cutting her off is not cruel, it's protecting your precious son from harmful manipulation that would undermine the most important relationship he has right now: with his mommy.

  AFAICS.....this is the bottom line. She knew just what she was doing and she chose to do just what you did not want. Would a JW want their child to be taken to a Christmas Eve Mass?

  I also like SapphireBlue's suggestion to show hubby the artists conceptions of what the WTS teaches. A picture is worth a thousand words and those pictures should open some eyes!

  hugs,

  Annie
• 

  JWdaughter

  I am with mom on this one. Daddy just doesn't get it, but the problem is we KNOW how JWs discipline, we know that they have zero tolerance to bad or noisy behavior-even from infants. Even assuming gramma isn't inclined to discipline the baby, there will be others there who might feel (as the child is older and less in g-ma's direct control) that they need to take the problem(child) in hand and make sure they learn their lesson. I saw such things a lot in the congregation, experienced it also, as I was one of twins. She has every right to keep her child out of KH's where their discipline if often viewed as abuse when looked at from non JW eyes.
• 

  misspeaches

  My sister has this same problem. A little bit different though, in that she leaves her daughter with our JW mum willingly. Mum isn't a bad person but she is heavily indoctrinated and believes with all her heart that her little grand daughter needs to be taught about Jehovah.

  My sister has sat mum down and been very direct about her daughter not being exposed to the JW religon. No meetings, no prayers, no bible stories book NADA! I know it got through because my mum rang me about it all upset. (sigh...) A few months later and its back to its old ways. I rocked up at my parents the other day, my neice was there carrying around a bible stories book. Mum snuck her to the meeting that weekend.

  My sister is naturally very upset and angry. It was a big thing for her to approach my mum about it in the first place. I suggested that she enlist the support of her husband. If mum won't respect my sister then maybe she will respect my brother in law.

  You don't want to stoop to their low standards and play the disphellowshipping game but like someone else said maybe it has to come down to supervised visits?
• 

  unbeliever

  The really sad part is I have showed him those pictures. He acted like he was horrified when he saw them and I thought he got it back then but I was wrong. He knows about their blood policies and shunning. I have tried to educate him. I am pretty sure I can reason with him about not letting my mom take Dylan to meetings or witnessing to him but I know he will allow some kind of contact. I don't think she should be allowed any contact until she can honor my wishes. She is going to do whatever the hell she wants where the baby is concerned if he does not supervise the visits. Why can't he see that??!!! He just does not understand my family is not normal so therefore he thinks I am not being reasonable. I told him that if he plans or his parents plan to take Dylan to the Catholic church when he is older my mom will undermine what he is being taught first chance she gets. He does not think that will happen. He is beyond clueless. I truly believe he thinks my mom is some misguided poor lady who can't think for herself but since she loves her grandson she should have a lot of access to him. LT I will ask him if he will speak to you but I know he will say no. Thanks for the offer anyway.
• 

  sass_my_frass

  This can't be something that drives you and he apart. Do make an effort to point out to he and to mum that she has all the access she wants on the condition that she follows your very small rule. This is not an unreasonable request. She has to be trusted not to find ways around it, and he has to be trusted to back you up on it.

  I am determined to make him see what a destructive cult the witnesses are.

  You probably won't; sometimes the louder we talk the loonier we seem.
• 

  Number 6

  I don't often post but this prompted me to respond.

  I would press the nuclear button. Tell her in no uncertain terms that unless your wishes are respected there will be no more contact. Furthermore if it comes to your attention that your wishes despite this remain disrespected, contact will be summarily severed immediately.

  I speak from bitter experience. My mother would not give me an assurance that if the opportunity arose she would not preach to my children. Result: Contact immediatly severed.

  JW's are JW's first and family members second if even that. They have no respect whatsoever for boundaries if they think they can gain a potential convert. My mother would have no hesitation in trying to convert my children if she thought she could get away with it. I'm simply depriving them of the opportunity. When my kids are older and wiser I'll explain to them why it was necessary to have them see less of their zealous self-righteous JW grandparents and I have every confidence they'll thank me.

  Craig