NAME JUST ONE thing....ONE THING...revealed by God....

by Terry 284 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Jeffro

  Day 1 - Light - Big Bang (note that there was evening and morning... ie the light came from the dark)
  Day 2 - waters above and below - atmosphere to support life 'above' and primeval (?) soup 'below'.
  Day 3 - Dry Land and vegetation (I'm thinking rainforest climate here!).
  Day 4 - Sun and moon appear due to development of cloud system and possibly removal of other gases/dust left in higher stratosphere by the big bang which blocked out the heavenly bodies.
  Day 5 - fish (some of which evolved into amphibious animals) and birds
  Day 6 - Land animals - then man (evolution!)
  (so day 2, 5&6 - amoeba/single cells-fish-amphibians-reptiles-birds-land animals-later including humans - is that the right order? And YES you can stick some dinosaurs in there somewhere if you like!
  Day 7 - Need for rest. I don't have any links to hand but some scientists have agreed in the last year at least, that the human body is 'programmed' for one day of rest per week.

  Firstly, there are several claims made above that are merely speculative interpretations of what happened on each 'day' that aren't at all stated in the bible. But aside from that, the argument used is similar to the one in the JW 'Evolution' book, contending that the order of events could not have been chosen at random without special knowledge, however, the argument is irrational. It is obvious, for example, that humans were on the scene after there was dry land. (It is also obvious that plants could only develop after sunlight was available, but we'll turn a blind eye to the bible's error there for now.) It's not a great stretch of the imagination to assume that smaller and simpler animals came before bigger more complex ones. There is nothing so remarkable about this order of events that primitive superstitious people could not have come up with it.
• 

  Jeffro

  I'm caught in the middle here. While I believe in a Creator, I have doubts that the bible was directed by God Himself. I believe that it was just written from man's point of view. In fact, I did a thread on this a long time ago. When the bible says "All scripture is inspired of God", many people take that to mean that God was sort of a ghost-writer for the scriptures. It wasn't until after I took a couple of biblical courses at university (man, you get a totally different take on the scriptures when you study it from an academic point of view!) that I sort of came to this conclusion:

  Saying that the bible says that "All scripture is inspired of God" is a gross generalisation. 'Paul' wrote to 'Timothy' that all scripture was inspired. Which scriptures was he referring to? Certainly not the ones that weren't written yet! And certainly there were more than the limited set that some Catholics decided were okay 1600 years ago. Using 2 Timothy 3:16 as 'proof' that the 66 books of the bible we have today are all "inspired" is illogical. There is no proof that any are "inspired", and even if they were, there would remain no proof that it were to the exclusion of all other 'scriptures'.
• 

  Jeffro

  Immaculate conception accounts (all of them, Biblical and otherwise) show that it is possible to have children without ever having intercourse. As late as 1880 this seemed to critics a ridiculous impossibility, believers subjected to nearly endless interrogatory as to HOW it was accomplished. This has now been scientifcally proven possible. Many living, breathing people are leading productive lives although their parents never had sex. (see Sperm Bank)

  Comparing 'immaculate conception' myths with in vitro fertilisation is an invalid comparison. One requires the genetic material to come from somewhere, the other requires gullibility and an overactive immagination.

  Matter transmutation is theoretically probable. There are many accounts of matter transmutation from a variety of different cultures, a famous one is water into wine. We now comprehend that this requires nothing more complicated than the reordering of available atoms.

  Re-ordering the available atoms of water cannot make wine. (You may like to take a look at a periodic table.) It would be necessary to split a portion of those atoms to form a smaller amount of the other elements required to make wine. And maybe a Haz-Mat suit.

  The beginning of almost all human technological advancements is the knowledge of how to start fire, knowledge attributed almost ubiquitously to a gift from various Gods.

  "Grog see lightning make fire... lightning hot... hot make fire..."

  It is theoretically possible to genetically predict the general nature and disposition of a person even at the embryonic stage of development. Theoretically, it could even become possible at the zygote stage. Many accounts throughout history exist of people claiming to know the nature of an unborn child and correctly predicting it. Often, the credit for such knowledge is attributed to God or Gods.

  Usually, the credit actually goes to molding the environment of the child so that it suits what is expected of it. And usually it is written after the fact.
• 

  Jeffro

  hibiscusfire:

  God gave the lady her 2 children. God did not give intestinal worms, malaria, HIV, rabies, etc., that kill millions of children every year. All the bad things have come into existence because of sin.

  God gave the lady her 2 children? I think 'the guy' may have had some part in it as well. And I think there must have been more than just the two children... unless 'the lady' shacked up with one of her kids.
  
  So people are to blame for intestinal worms?? When did animals sin, so that they should die? Why did your loving god create ecosystems that are completely reliant on death?

  Did God tell people to do wrong things? No.

  If your god is omniscient, then yes, he created them with full knowledge that he created a defective product, both in his human creatures, and his spirit creatures.

  Did God tell people to be unclean and not take care of themselvs? No.

  Of course not. There is no actual evidence that god told people anything.

  Did God tell people to litter all over the place to give the unhealthy environment we have today? No.

  These questions are designed to oversimplify the glaring errors in the bible's early myths.

  All the bad things that you claim come from God actually exist because of sin. We are to blame. How can we blame God for our wrongdoings? It is like a wicked man (Wayne) blaming someone else (Gary) for a crime he (Gary) did not commit when the truth is that wicked man (Wayne) is the guilty one.

  In your theology, God created the potential for sin, and the sinners, with the full knowledge of what he was doing. Your god is therefore complicit in the death of every person ever born. Who are Gary and Wayne??
• 

  Jeffro

  hibiscusfire:

  Terry, this is what you people really have within you. Thank you. I guess this is your idea of living and treating others with respect. GOD is love but this is hate you all have. Thanks for letting others know again that athiests are haters. I guess you can reply to everyone else but not address this type of behaviour from your "followers".

  And today's word, boys and girls, is "passive-aggressive".
• 

  JWdaughter

  using is evolution-rejected by most biblical literalists, and a theory that was built upon human observation. I believe that the Bible 'wisdom' is pretty much observation, human logic, wisdom and foolishness, legend and gossip, rumor and spotty history, monday morning quarterbacking, etc.

  I remember when I was in a mythology class in my final year of JW association and thinking that the only difference between many 'myths' and the Bible was that we accepted the Bible as being written by God, and myths to be ancient stories and fables. Many had valuable lessons about character and human interaction, but they were not accepted-obviously-as inspired words from God. I put those thoughts on the backburner for years as I left the organization and went through a phalanx of other churches and religious groups. Only recently was I able to really respect my honest questions and acknowledge them. I now find it ironic that we consider certain religions pagan, when I can't tell how much more advanced tChristianity (in any form, including the JW's) is from more earth based religion or the wisdom types of religion. Christianity is just another pagan/idol worshipping religion with an aversion to being thought of as 'primitive'. To think we are advanced beyond the face painting, body piercing, mask/headress wearing religions, we go into large buildings filled with icons of one kind or another, where we pray to an invisible (much superior to the kinds we make for ourselves) God that we fear or believe will put us in hell, or destroy us at an armageddon, or raise us up to be superhuman perfect beings living in heaven. We believe that this God will accept US only if we accept HIM, proclaim him, and revere and worship him blindly, without any evidence that he exists. And if we do not accept him blindly, our punishment will be everlasting destruction of one kind or another. This doesn't sound like foolish, primitive religion to YOU, emo? OTOH, I see that some religion is good and benefits others. I like it when it ispires people to be better, to be happier, to be decent. . . I am not anti religion, just anti obnoxious people.
• 

  hillary_step

  Jeffro,

  And today's word, boys and girls, is "passive-aggressive".

  It helps to understand the mentality that is alive and well on XJW Boards throughout the Internet when dealing with solid argumentation :

  1) Logic, consistency in argumentation and the use of critical thinking skills = Arrogance.

  2) Answering each post of worth, even though extending the debate into numerous pages = Obsession

  3) Throwing back a verbal 'rock' when one has first been thrown at you = Angry and mean-spirited person.

  4) Debating without sentimentality or partiality = Arrogance....oh, I see we are back at the start. ;)

  HS
• 

  Little Drummer Boy

  Chemistry fascinates me, and I briefly considered switching majors while in school so I could work more closely along those lines. That's why this tickled me so much:

  Re-ordering the available atoms of water cannot make wine. (You may like to take a look at a periodic table.) It would be necessary to split a portion of those atoms to form a smaller amount of the other elements required to make wine. And maybe a Haz-Mat suit.

  See, that's funny. That right there. HAHAHAHA!

  Good one Jeffro.
• 

  lalliv01

  Hi Y'all. what a challenging thread, thanks Terry.
  Terry, in answer to your question (challenge). How could mankind have known back in the time of Noah (actually in Moses' day) that the earth could not possibly ever
  be engulfed by water, flooded completely so as to cover every mountain top on this planet? How did Moses know that there is just not enough water on, in, or around the
  earth to flood the entire planet? " and I will establish my covenent with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any
  more be a flood to destroy the earth." (Gen. 9:11, KJV)
  
  Smart guy, Moses.
  
  Lal
• 

  Jeffro

  lalliv01:

  Terry, in answer to your question (challenge). How could mankind have known back in the time of Noah (actually in Moses' day) that the earth could not possibly ever be engulfed by water, flooded completely so as to cover every mountain top on this planet? How did Moses know that there is just not enough water on, in, or around the earth to flood the entire planet? " and I will establish my covenent with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth." (Gen. 9:11, KJV)

  It seems you may be just as smart. It's scarcely worth mentioning the gaping flaw in your logic.