OG LIKE FIRE!!! (Enough Bible thumping!)
Little Drummer Boy said:
"I have camped and would have given anything - anything to be near a fire's warm embrace. I have forsaken actual shelter before just to sleep in the open by a fire because that is what made it possible to go on and make it through the night."
Very well said. I've "been there done that" as well.
Having given this whole "anthropogenic fire" topic a little more thought (a couple hours, tee hee) I have come to the conclusion (how's that for humility) that lightning-based fire was how humans first came to know the value of fire and how to keep it going and re-kindle it from embers. Most importantly, the precious value of fine, dry tinder. Only after having a good working knowledge of how fire works, could a person then piece together what might be required to start a fire by friction.
Have you ever seen someone start a fire using the "friction method"? It is a royal pain the butt, and definitely not easy. I have been taught that Native Americans kept their "tinder pouches" very safe and dry. Their very lives hung in the balance when facing cold weather and being on the move. When you know what you're doing, the "bow method" is the easiest (huge understatement there) way to use friction to start a fire. The keys are high pressure, high speed and bone dry, super-fine tinder.
I've got a "pet theory" that somewhere along the line "Og" (to use LDB's pet name) noticed that a piece of wood that he was using for something else got charred when subjected to high pressure and high speed. The "light bulb" lit up in Og's brain and he experimented with various methods to create the essential glowing coal to start the fire. But there's no way someone would accidentally stumble upon friction-based fire. They'd have to first possess an underlying understanding of what it takes to revive and sustain a fire.
When I first observed fire started using the "bow method" it was a very powerful experience. I'm not good enough with words to fully share it here.
Open Mind
(of the, Og like fire, class)
NAME JUST ONE thing....ONE THING...revealed by God....
by Terry 284 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Open mind
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eclipse
Mad, are you serious???
but the WRONG ones are there, too- such as loose conduct, blind belief in the Leaders, homosexuality, etc.
Did you not read what you typed?
You are blind. Seriously.
The society expects BLIND ALLEGIANCE.
If you do not accept them as providing god's spiritual food at the proper time, you are called an apostate!
and they are JUST MEN, who make decisions based on a 2/3 majority vote.
IF they had HOLY SPIRIT, or communed with the dead members of the 144,000 to get their info, they would reach A UNANIMOUS DECISION.
The fact that they CHOOSE to VOTE on SPIRITUAL MATTERS PROVES that they are just using their own thoughts and wisdom.
Where is loose conduct taught in any of those religions? Where is homosexuality taught?
(homophobic religions make me want to set their buildings on fire, I think they are the most closeminded, judgemental, WRONG religions in the entire world)
You missed my point entirely as only a blind dub could.
My point was that there were other religions that were teaching the SAME gospels as JESUS. Jesus was not ORIGINAL.
There would have been morals in this world no matter what.
Maybe not the morals to your programmed preference, but MORALS nontheless.
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AuldSoul
Have you ever seen someone start a fire using the "friction method"? It is a royal pain the butt, and definitely not easy.
Yes, I have. I have seen myself start a fire using the friction method—which is what started the line of reasoning. It is a royal pain in the butt and not the sort of thing someone would arrive at doing by simple trial and error.
The keys are high pressure, high speed and bone dry, super-fine tinder.
Perfectly expressed, and highly unlikely to be observed in nature in such a way that the realization dawns. As far as I know, hands spinning wood does not create smoke except in artificial circumstances, such as the additional use of ignition compounds coating the bowl. Cold, especially cold and damp, environments would be the least likely place to find those circumstances. Icy conditions would make the discovery nearly impossible. The skin of the hand would be off before smoke occurred.
I'd love to hear a hypothetical scenario under which the "friction method" actually employed by primitive peoples would have been discovered accidentally. The point is, the gift of anthropogenic fire (i.e. specifically the technology of fire, not the naturally occuring sort) is attributed to Gods by many, many ancient cultures. Whoever actually discovered it must have been very humble, indeed.
Still, the Bible (and other ancient religious texts) relate at least three points that science has either established as fact or which science expects to eventually establish as fact. None of these could have been scientifically comprehended by the people who reported them and were explained as miraculous, but they can be scientifically comprehended today. I mentioned the three in the first post where I started discussing fire.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
Terry
Wow, Terry! What put you in such a Destructive Mode?
If all in the Bible's ignored but the virtues it has REVEALED and extolled- that would be enough to endear it to you!
Stop and think of how corrupt the world would be now if the Bible never existed, if Christ never taught!
Can you consider that without the hateful attack?
I have no idea what this "hateful attack" might be. And, as far as my "destructive mode"; I can only confess to destroying bad argumentation. Otherwise, I'm the same old pussycat I've always been.
Now, getting to your argument about VIRTUES...wow! What VIRTUES would this include?
Murder? Lust?Rape?Incest?Theft? How about wiping out the entire human race except for 8 people?
Would those be the virtues you had in mind? Or, am I being hateful?
You don't define VIRTUE, but, you seem to believe people who did not belong to the bible cult never possessed virtues. Would that be correct? Is that your view? Only bible believers possess virtues? No virtues existed outside of Israel or Christianity?
I have to strongly disagree with you on this. Why?
Because the bible makes a mockery of virtue.
It was the ancient Greeks who most clearly and precisely discussed, explored and defined VIRTUE properly.
an excellence of moral or intellectual character. Plato, Aristotle and many subsequent philosophers explored the nature of the virtues, their relations among themselves and to non-virtuous states, their place in our psychology and their role in achieving happiness. Virtues offer a basis for ethical life rivalling those provided by Kantian principles or a utilitarian calculation of happiness, although an account of ethics might reasonably include principles, consequences and virtues. ...
www.filosofia.net/materiales/rec/glosaen.htm -
Terry
So far I haven't seen one person answer Terry's original challenge, yet I get the feeling that some think they have. Sad.
There is a pattern on some of the more "challenging" threads. Posters don't bother to read the original premise.
My threads are designed to deliver the premise in the first post.
Comments so far have mostly been awkwardly digressive and pouty. A couple of posters tried to offer a specific answer to my question. Others have offered side issues.
Frankly, I appreciate any and all discussion on the threads I start. I don't mind what digression the conversation takes.
But, Shawn, clearly there is little effort to really address my premise.
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Little Drummer Boy
Sorry Terry that I didn't stick to the topic. The sub-topic on fire drew me in.
I suppose that I didn't direct comment to your original premise because...I really have nothing to add other than to say that I agree completely with you.
If I were God, I would show my children (in a tightly controlled and helpful not destructive way) how to advanced their society from farming to industrial to technological, etc. I would guide them at all important steps so that they didn't make huge mistakes like...oh, I dunno, misunderstanding how to worship me and getting into wars over it. As the eons passed by, I would help them to advance physically to the point that they could trancend this mortal existence. They would become like me and be gods in their own right. And why would I do all that? Because they would be my children and I would love them.
But, none of that has ever happened for us.
So, your questions of what has god revealed will go unanswered I'm afraid.
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LtCmd.Lore
I'd love to hear a hypothetical scenario under which the "friction method" actually employed by primitive peoples would have been discovered accidentally.
Generally the friction method is spinning a drill-stick against a hole in a piece of bark or flat wood. Correct?
One day Thug decided to construct a primitive shoe, because he had just hit his toe up against the rock outside his cave AGAIN. He decided that the best way to do this would be to use animal hair to tie a flat peice of wood to his foot. He tried this but it kept falling off. Then he realised that it would say on a heck of a lot better if he drilled a hole in the wood to feed the rope through, thus holding it in place.
He was pretty ticked off about his sore toe, and he was also in a hurry.
So he got his drill and a flat peice of wood and got to work. As he drilled, very aggressively and quickly, the wood started to heat up.
One of the following happened:
A: At this point the fire might start by accident due to the wood shavings falling into the hole he was drilling. As he leaned over to blow the excess wood particles out of the way so he could see, the hair from his animal skin got in the way and he blew. He then found himself with a burning animal tail tied around his neck... Unfortunately Thug didn't survive... However Grog witnessed the event and was able to replicate the effects.
B: Thug was already familiar with fire, because he had been using the flint method before. He saw the smoke and realized that he was creating a fire.
C: Thug didn't blow on the hole, but instead used his fingers to dig the dust out. (Blowing on the hole is stupid, the dust would invariably go right in the eye.) When he touched it, he noticed that it was conisderably hot. So he tried to see how hot he could make it. And continued his experiments from there. Maybe getting Grog to take turns, or if he was particularly smart, he would use the bow method to go even faster.
In short, I think that the friction method could have been discovered by accident, while trying to drill a hole.
Lore
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hibiscusfire
Good gravy woman do you have no shame? There is a time to shut the f*ck up and about one post ago was it.
Caedes
Caedes, thank you. God bless you too.
Terry, this is what you people really have within you. Thank you. I guess this is your idea of living and treating others with respect. GOD is love but this is hate you all have. Thanks for letting others know again that athiests are haters. I guess you can reply to everyone else but not address this type of behaviour from your "followers".
hibiscusfire
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quietlyleaving
Lore I think so too
http://burarra.questacon.edu.au/pages/making_fire.html
No matches? No Problem!
The traditional Burarra way of making fire is by using two sticks, the rubbing stick and the base stick.
The rubbing stick is made from straight branches of hard, dry and light wood. This stick is thin and long, about 40 cm (16 in) in length. The outer layer of bark is removed and the stick is smoothed with a knife.
The base stick is wider and flat so that it sits firmly on the ground. A recess is made in the middle of the base stick so that the end of the rubbing stick just fits in. A little groove is made on one side of this hole. Fire makers usually keep good fire sticks so that they don't have to prepare new ones each time they want to light a fire.
To make fire, you have to rub fast and push down hard at the same time.
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quietlyleaving
hey, take a look at this video of 2 bushmen starting a fire by rubbing 2 stcks -
http://www.ianandwendy.com/OtherTrips/BotswanaNamibia/Videos/video_bushmen.htm