NAME JUST ONE thing....ONE THING...revealed by God....

by Terry 284 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  AuldSoul

  Terry,

  Ask yourself this question: How many boys were butchered before the 8th day until the circumcision was delayed by trial and error to the ideal?
  
  When a workable (trial and error) optimum day was determined the law was "fixed".

  Just to play devil's advocate, ask yourself this question: How many boys were butchered before the 8th day until the circumcision was delayed by trial and error to the ideal?

  The fact is, you cannot answer your own question. You don't know that even one boy was "butchered" prior to the 8th day being fixed by law, do you? You're using sophistic questions to make your point. You are free to surmise a scenario that supports your prejudiced assumptions all you like, but isn't your question based in pure conjecture? Your conclusion is likewise based in conjecture, not demonstrable reality.

  AuldSoul
• 

  THE GLADIATOR

  Well - I have read all the attacks and defenses in the arena of this thread and found it entertaining - Roman style.

  It is great fun but can never come to any conclusion because the human mind is as treacherous as Christians and lions.

  Terry remains a great gladiator but 'ultimate gladiator' is a title I reserve for myself. I would clash swords with him to prove this but no need - I agree with every word he says.

  The rest of you may as well leave the arena now as you are out matched, out classed and have been thoroughly trounced.

  Those of you who are about to die salute us.
• 

  Cold Creek Swimmer

  Gladiator,

  Well said! The "Burden of proof" falls upon those who make the claim. "Faith" that these things occur is not proof. Analytical, emotionless, cold, hard reasoning is all that can be used as proof. Anything else is conjecture.

  CCS
• 

  bebu

  I am sure this has been addressed earlier, and I just skimmed these pages and ignored several flaming pages. But here are my simplest thoughts.

  Revealed to whom?? Revealed to entire mankind all at once? A group or person long ago or a modern group or person? Lots of groups or individuals over time? Any of these, if they can be corroborated? If so, then I would submit that God has revealed personal love to me. And that revelation corroborates with individuals and groups, past and present.

  Loving a spouse or child is reflexively chalked up to "nature", but I think we go well beyond the animal world with our emotional connections. Human love can be passionate--and not simply erotically passionate. Love has public and private faces--hopefully we experience both kinds, but I am not sharing my husband with anyone to prove my own experience--it would simply never work! I wouldn't leave him for being unable to prove it, either.

  I use the above example as a springboard only say I recognize the personal experience of love. I "learned" that God loves me in first grade, but it was not experienced/revealed/known until a few years later, and always by surprise. Like seeing the sun with my own eyes, versus hearing about the sun from books at school. I have seen the sun; many others have, too. In my whole life, it's what I value the absolute most: knowing (experiencing) that God passionately loves me.

  And from that, I honestly believe that everyone is deeply loved by God, passionately. Many (if not all) of you will eventually discover/experience this, too, I believe.

  <----2 cents...?

  bebu

  PS: AS, very interesting about fire. Good "fuel" for thought.
• 

  Jeffro

  Auldsoul:

  Cinderella was a fable, written as such intentionally, not intended for actual acceptance and belief.

  So the determining factor for whether something that can happen did happen is whether the writer intended us to believe it happened. I don't think so.
• 

  fedorE

  TERRY

  You asked how i felt regarding circumcision predating Judaism. History is what it is. Its human knowledge that becomes refined with time. I wish that i hadnt of been circumcised because I want the greater sensitivity there. What choice did i have and what choice do those born today have where hospitals regularly carrie out this procedure? However (I am unaware) if it has been medically been proven to be necessary today why is it still practiced?

  I re read your introductory post. And it occured to me that the Bible.as i was "taught" was a book was the introduction of Messianic prophecy and subsequent indoctrination of its contents to its readers. There are always people trying to fit/prove archeology into the Bible, or astronomy into the Bible ect.. to prove its worthiness. But not the other way around because it falls flat as it is void of substance regarding the sciences But I agree with you that such a book claiming to come from God makes extraordinary claims and doesnt provide any Extraordinary evidence.

  In other words i think its bullshit
• 

  Terry

  I use the above example as a springboard only say I recognize the personal experience of love. I "learned" that God loves me in first grade, but it was not experienced/revealed/known until a few years later, and always by surprise.

  When I was about 5 or 6 I was given a Teddy bear. I named it Cinnamon. I loved Cinnamon and he loved me. I felt it very deeply and it was real.

  Years later my Aunt Florence found Cinnamon packed away in a box somewhere. It was so peculiar seeing that tattered little stuffed plaything with buttons for eyes and a felt flap for a tongue.

  What did I feel? Nothing. I saw it for what it really was. I felt silly that my emotional projection (as a child) had been so needy and profound.

  I suppose it was a learning process and a springboard to amplifying my ability love living things.

  Don't know.

  All I can say is that our Teddy Bear in the sky is probably no different.
• 

  bebu

  All I can say is that our Teddy Bear in the sky is probably no different.

  I recognize the difference between sentimentality, hopeful projection, zeal, religious ardor, burning bosoms, warm fuzzies, and so forth, which you bring up. I am trying to make a very sharp distinction between them. Emotions like those can be very unreliable. We can outgrow them. We can create them as well.

  I am not talking about an emotion, simple or even complex. I have hugged lots of stuffed animals as a child. I have hugged/been hugged by lots of people all my life. I have been married (sex!) for over 20 years. I have also encountered the love of God. These are allcompletelydifferent experiences, and the best by far is experiencing the embrace of God, hands down. The closest anything can come to it is sex, and even sex is (hopefully!) easy to distinguish from squeezing fluffy (stuffed!!) animals...

  bebu
• 

  AuldSoul

  Jeffro: So the determining factor for whether something that can happen did happen is whether the writer intended us to believe it happened. I don't think so.

  I never suggested anything close to this. The determining factor for whether something that can happen did happen is whether or not it did happen. Since we are talking about accounts passed on by ancient cultures it is difficult to know for sure that anything has happened.

  But obviously strange things have happened. Sometimes very strange, inexplicable things (in terms of the limited savvy of the people who witnessed them). Sometimes very strange, inexplicable things have happened to people with much more modern intellect and comprehension.

  All the rest aside, you and Terry keep trying to avoid the basic point: The possibility of conception without sexual union was not related in a work of plausible science fiction within 110 years of achieving the feat, it was related as a factual accounting in diverse ancient cultures 2,000 years and more before we were able to accomplish the feat. Somewhat more of a leap was required than those made by the science fiction writer, Jules Verne.

  Again, this possibility was always reported as having been communicated by divine or mystical sources.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  ringo5

  Again, this possibility was always reported as having been communicated by divine or mystical sources.

  If someone asked you for the probability of this possibility, what number would you give? (something tells me you would never give a number)

  David Hume said it quite well: "Which is more likely, that the whole natural order of things was subverted or a Jewish minx told a lie?"