Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change

by observador 175 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  yknot

  Thats IT!

  I officially am going down the path of "really bad JW" and I am going to say that I am starting to think the "GENERATION" was back in 70 CE !!!!!

  ??? Yknot ???
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  TD

  Leolaia

  Could this be another "generation"-esque issue in store for the future?

  I don't see how they can avoid it. The GC doctrine is still attached to the pre 95 generation doctrine like a conjoined twin:

  "Especially beginning in 1935, when the identity of the "great multitude," or "great crowd," was clearly understood, large numbers of these began to manifest themselves. At first there were hundreds, then thousands, later hundreds of thousands, and now there are millions spread around the globe. God’s infallible Word depicts this group as ‘coming out of the great tribulation,’ being survivors of it, living right on into God’s New Order without ever having to die. (Revelation 7:9, 10, 14; John 11:26) The early members of this group are now in their 60’s or 70’s or older. Jehovah did not allow the ingathering of this group to begin too soon. The "great crowd," including many of the earliest members thereof, will survive into the "new earth."" (Survival Into a New Earth p. 185)
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  Happy Harvester

  One of my grandmothers passed away believing she might never die.

  The other grandmother is holding onto the same hope, as she too begins going blind and deaf. She was just treated for cancer.

  Both of my parents held the belief that the world would end - probably in 1975 - and were baptized not long before it when I was barely old enough to remember it.

  Now they're approaching their retirement and old age, still thinking they might never die, and certain that if they do, they'll probably be resurrected in the new system.

  In the meantime, they have nothing to do with me or with their grandchild, believing it will secure them a place in the "new system."

  It's rough enough to get old and suffer, but it really sucks to deprive one self of one's own grand child and child because of a belief in an ever-changing fairy tale.
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  oompa

  Leolaia: Jehovah did not allow the ingathering of this group to begin too soon. The "great crowd," including many of the earliest members thereof, will survive into the "new earth."" (Survival Into a New Earth p. 185)

  Poor Leolaia....the Survival book was written in 1985 and is to be tossed out the window as regards new light associated with 1914, 1995 and 2007 and beyond...new light.....remember?......sorry.......oompa
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  oompa

  By the way, this thread is pissin me off soooooo bad that I may have to kick some observadorass....got that???? Why are we spending so much time on something that really is not a change as big as diaper on a kid on a green pea baby food diet???...I may keep posting on this till Armagedon I am so pissed....There is a ton of bad/old/wrong information...more than I could counteract with my wife in the room, but of course the bad info does not matter either....it is like the green poopy diaper...so why does it still piss me off.....kick in meds...oompa
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  observador

  I believe it all you have said. But, do you have a copy (scan) of the FEB 2008 WT? Just asking :)

  No, the foreign language editions of Watchtower are usually released earlier. That's what happened. Also, the translation is, of course, not official. It's the best I can come up with based on my experience. Soon a scan of the English edition will pop up in this board. If get a scan of the Portuguese edition, it will be posted.
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  Fisherman

  15 Today, people who don't have the spiritual understanding think that there is nothing of "stunningly observable" as to the signs of Jesus' presence. They reason that all continues as before. (2 Peter 3:4) On the other hand, the faithful brothers of Christ, the present class of John, recognize this sign as if it was a lightning and understand its real meaning. As a group, those anointed comprise the present "generation" of comtemporaries who won't pass away "until all the things come to pass".* This indicates that some of anointed brothers of Christ will still be alive on earth when the foretold great tribulation begins.

  compare highligted above with highlighed below:

  20

  But on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness, 21 neither will people be saying, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For, look! the kingdom of God is in YOUR midst. New World Translation

  The WT uses the term highlighted alluding to the quoted Bible verse implying that just as the Pharisees did not see Jesus ( the kingdom of God ) neither do spiritually blinds ones today see the sign of Jesus presence. By making tis stament, the wts repetes (see 2peter 3:4) its position that Jesus presence began in 1914. The definition of generation has not changed since the 1995 wt article. There is not change implied in the wt article above as to the meaning or length of generation ther than the 1995 wt article.

  Notice below how the wts defines the "sign"

  the disciples who asked about the sign of Christ’s presence already accepted him as Messiah and King. (Mt 16:16) But Jesus had said that the Kingdom was "not coming with striking observableness." (Lu 17:20) Consequently (though the apostles mistakenly believed that the Kingdom would be established on earth; Ac 1:6), at the arrival of the Kingdom they did not want to be like the Jewish leaders—blind to Jesus’ presence. Accordingly, they asked, not for a miraculous sign to be performed right there, but what the future identifying sign would be.

  In response Jesus described a composite "sign," one made up of many evidences, including wars, earthquakes, persecution of Christians, and a preaching about the Kingdom. (Mt 24:4-14, 32, 33) The destruction of Jerusalem and its temple was under consideration when the disciples asked Jesus for the "sign" (Lu 21:5-7), and his reply gave prophecies that applied to Jerusalem and Judea, which were fulfilled during their lifetime. (Lu 21:20; Mt 24:15) But his answer also dealt with the establishment of the Kingdom of God and its effects on all mankind.—Lu 21:31, 35. *RED is FROMINSIGHT BIBLE UNDERSTANDINGPublished and copyright of the WatchTower.
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  JCanon

  Now they're approaching their retirement and old age, still thinking they might never die, and certain that if they do, they'll probably be resurrected in the new system.

  I totally relate. I was raised in the truth and my parents are in their 80's and we've seen many pass on. Let's face it, 1014 is just 7 years away and that represents 100 years after 1914.

  When Christ arrives he pays the last first and the first last. The workers work for 77 years, that is 11 hours of 7 years each. The last hour would also be used for payment, which would be from 1991 to 1998. So at least in 1998 there would have to be some of those first-hour workers still alive to fulfill this. 1998 is 84 years after 1914. Someone 20 in 1914 would be 104 years old. Still room for fulfillment but obviolusly a very small number of some very elderly people in their 90's.

  The Bible allows for us to understand that Jehovah would wait to the "last minute" but also "it will not be late." I think we're just about there. The great tribulation will have to begin soon.

  So IRONICALLY, even though the "last generation" interpertation probably isn't directly linked with the concept of the last anointed person being alive when Armageddon comes, other parables do require at least a remnant of those original anointed ones to still be alive to fulfill certain prophecies no later than 1998. Maybe that's why this new explanation sort of rings a bell a bit. The Bible certainly suggests some of those beginning the work in 1914 would survive to see the end millennium. All the more reason to think 2011 AD might be taken more seriously.

  JC
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  Vinny

  I really don't care what reasons the WT Society gives for changes any longer. Reading any of these sorry excuses painted as "New light" nowadays is just boring, redundant and a truly embarrassing JOKE for the WT Society to even try using.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
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  cognizant dissident

  OK, let me see if I have this straight. The society disconnected the generation doctrine from 1914 in 1995. But they were still left with the problem of an annointed class who were not dying off. So they disconnected the "annointed class" doctrine from the 1935 cut off date and from Armageddon. Some posters have said this allows them to put off Armageddon forever and maintain control indefinitely, allowing the number of the remnant to do what it may.

  I don't think so, because the annointed (144,000) has ALWAYS been taught to be a literal number. It was ALWAYS taught to have been taken from the firstfruits of Christ's disciples. Thats what led to the 1935 cut off date in the firstplace. The numbers had already swelled so much further past 144,000 at that time. Even allowing for the occasional unfaithfulness, replacements were taught to have come from older brothers and sisters who had been around since 1935. Younger annointed were always looked down on and secretly talked about and counseled although never reproved.

  To make this new 1935 teaching hold up they are also going to have to change the teaching that the little flock were the "firstfruits" of Christ's disciples. Even that can't last forever. The repurcussions of that are that more will join the annointed, now that it is acceptable new light precedent for them to do so. When the ranks of the annointed keep swelling further, as they have already started to do, then they will come out with new light about the 144,000 being a symbolic number.

  A couple of years ago, when I first left, my husband stated that the thing that really bothered him was that the number of the annointed was not going down and they were being replaced by younger ones, not the old, faithful ones. He decided to stick it out with the org anyways, (since it's the best way of life and there is no where else to go, don't ya know). He asked me what I would do if the UN suddenly turned on world religion as the society predicted? I told him I was so sure that wasn't going to happen I would bet my life on it! I told him that I predict the society will come out with "new light" about the annointed and 1935 any day now. They would have no choice. Sure enough, my prediction came true but the society's didn't. I haven't heard a peep out of him about this, though. I wonder if I should remind him of my fulfilled prophecy or not?

  Hey, I now have a better track record for fulfilled prophecy than the WTBTS. All hail and put faith in Cog!