Confirmed! Watchtower Feb 15 08 brings the "generation" change

by observador 175 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    Listen, folks! Don't confuse several false teachings of JWs with what the Bible says. As far as the "anointed" goes, the Bible says that the first-hour workers were the only ones told in advance about being "anointed". But starting with the third-hour workers through the 11th, they are not told in advance. But when the 12th hour arrives and the workers are paid, ALL OF THEM become of the anointed. A half hour is 3-1/2 years so an hour is 7 years. The 11 hours of work is thus 77 years from 1914 to 1991. So after Christ arrives, starting with the latest ones in the truth, they would all become of the anointed. Only the WTS wouldn't see this readily since once Christ arrives there is no need to partake of the memorial. So they are secretly part of the "anointed."

    So being of the "anointed" is a real thing for some of us, even though those who believe the WTS is not anything special nor has any reference in the Bible would discount that. The third hour workers start appearing after 21 years. 21 plus 1914 is 1935, which is when the "other sheep"/non-heavenly class was recognized. So the Bible as well establishes the two-class system within God's organization, separating the third through the 11th-hour workers from the early ones in the kingdom.

    Even so, the Bible also says the GB of this organization would become apostate and produce both "wheat and weeds" which would be allowed to grow up together until the end when the harvest takes place after the second coming. After that, the organization would be abandoned as part of Babylon the Great.

    JC

  • Jourles
    Jourles
    When the ranks of the annointed keep swelling further, as they have already started to do, then they will come out with new light about the 144,000 being a symbolic number.

    Why come out with more "new light" when they can simply stop publishing a number? They have committed themselves to believing/teaching that the 144k is literal - since the beginning of their existence. To state the opposite now would invite confusion and mass questioning. Not to mention that it would likely require the retooling of other major doctrines.

    The WTS controls the information that is delivered to the r&f. Now that the anointed number means nothing, they will likely do away with the reporting of it. The constant ~8k figure has been embarrassing. Even I was embarrassed of it when I was 'in.' This may be the last year we see the official count of the anointed. IMO, after the memorial this year, there will no longer be a head count of partakers - in print that is. The only way I can see them continuing to print the count is if it remains steady or drops. If it increases substantially, they will have to drop it.

    On another related note, the anointed count was the other carrot. It was taught for decades that there would be anointed left on earth when the GT came. The dwindling number(ha!) of anointed, in print, was a visual countdown clock for the r&f. We knew that the 80 year generation - combined with the remaining number of anointed - pointed to the closeness of armageddon. Now, the new generation change means nothing to the r&f. The same also holds true to the anointed count. If the number increases(highly likely that it will), that will only serve to visually indicate to the r&f that armageddon is further off than before. Why would it indicate this? Because it has been so ingrained in the r&f that the anointed numbers would decrease the closer we got to armageddon. Why would you decrease employee morale even further by publishing numbers that would only help to disenfranchise more employees? This is why I feel that the number will simply go away. I'll gladly eat my words at the next 'fest if they continue to publish the number.

  • JCanon
    JCanon
    On another related note, the anointed count was the other carrot. It was taught for decades that there would be anointed left on earth when the GT came. The dwindling number(ha!) of anointed, in print, was a visual countdown clock for the r&f. We knew that the 80 year generation - combined with the remaining number of anointed - pointed to the closeness of armageddon. Now, the new generation change means nothing to the r&f. The same also holds true to the anointed count. If the number increases(highly likely that it will), that will only serve to visually indicate to the r&f that armageddon is further off than before. Why would it indicate this? Because it has been so ingrained in the r&f that the anointed numbers would decrease the closer we got to armageddon. Why would you decrease employee morale even further by publishing numbers that would only help to disenfranchise more employees? This is why I feel that the number will simply go away. I'll gladly eat my words at the next 'fest if they continue to publish the number.

    Good point! But actually the WTS has had this wrong anyway. The parable of the vineyard workers clearly shows that ALL the workers are invited into the kingdom. Only it is a surprive for the third-hour through 11th-hour workers that they get the penny too. Basically a half hour is 3-1/2 years (42 months) so an hour is 7 years. The workers work for 11 hours, or 77 years from 1914 to 1991. The 3rd hour workers are distinguished 21 years after 1914, which is 1935, when the official "other shee" were recognized. But based on this, everybody who is faithful would be invited into the kingdom heavenly class once the messiah arrives. Therefore, an immediate surge in the anointed is what actually happens! This will be news to the first-hour workers who are not told about this, nor understand this. That's why they murmur and are shocked that all the workers get the same invitation to heaven. BUT, technically, the new anointed wouldn't openly identify themselves by partaking since they are the ones who know Christ arrived in 1992 and the memorial only celebrates his absence until he returns. So for the most part, the newly anointed ones, the true number would remain invisible. Even so an INCREASE rather than a decrease after 1991 among the witnesses is what should be expected. The WTS is clueless as to what is happening.

    Case in point how clearly wrong their understanding of the vineyard workers is. They assign themselves as the 11th-hour workers because they are "new" on the scene compared to Christendom and Catholicism. Thus they claim the 1st-hour workers represent Christendom. Problem is ALL the workers get the penny, including the 1st-hour workers! They may murmur and they may not get more as they wanted, but they still get their penny: "Take your money and go!" They still were faithful doing their work. Plus, if the 11th-hour workers represent the anointed with JWs, then that suggests none of the other workers would get the penny, right? Because the penny represents heavenly life? Well, what about the third, sixth and ninth-hour workers who get the penny? Who are THEY? See? It makes no sense. The true understanding is that the "other sheep" from among witnesses, those who are paying attention and who are faithful, are all invited into the kingdom but it's a last-minute surprise, to them as well as to the older anointed ones who are faithful. Jehovah does not reveal this to them until it's time for them to get "paid"/sealed.

    Further, don't forget the total number of seats is 1,440,000. The 144K represent just the Jews who make up the 10% root of all the anointed.

    JCanon

  • TD
    TD
    Poor Leolaia....the Survival book was written in 1985 and is to be tossed out the window as regards new light associated with 1914, 1995 and 2007 and beyond...new light.....remember?......sorry.......oompa

    Poor oompa. How could you confuse Leolaia with me? Besides being the opposite gender, she is way younger and way smarter....

    There has been no "New light" vis a vis the doctrine of the Great Crowd. It is the one teaching still tying the JW's down to an untenable time frame.

    When the whole concept was introduced in 1935 it was thought that the Great Crowd had already "Come out" of the Great Tribulation because it was thought that the great war of 1914-1918 had been the start of the tribulation.

    When the JW's decided in the early 70's that the Great Tribulation was entirely a future event, it became necessary to explain why nearly 10,000 people had been explicitly told in public that they were the Great Crowd of Revelation. In JW parlance, it was worded it like this: These ones were now "prospective members" of the great crowd having the "prospect" of surviving the great tribulation so it was "appropriate" that they were identified in 1935 when this group began to "manifest itself."

    However since no one has any prospect whatsoever of surviving an event that they will never live to see, this definitely placed the great tribulation within the lifetime of adults at the Washington D.C. convention in 1935. These people were every bit as old as the 1914 generation itself. The Great Crowd doctrine was thus inseparably joined to the pre 95 generation doctrine.

    This problem is not going to be nearly as easy to fix as the generation doctrine itself. I know it's tempting to say something to the effect that, "Those with the earthly hope who die before the great tribulation are simply members of the "Other sheep", but there are serious, serious problems with this approach that call into question the value of being a JW in the first place.

  • undercover
    undercover
    The fact that they HAVE TO KEEP CHANGING THEIR POSITIONS proves conclusively that GOD was never behind those decisions, at any point, even though these exact issues were discussed at length by the Governing Body, prayed over many times by this same Governing Body and subsequently PUBLISHED in WT literature year after year after year by the Governing Body.

    If what they teach now is "truth", what does the "truth" that was taught before (but now cast aside) become? How can you have two "truths" that contradict each other?

  • Blueblades
    Blueblades

    I'll say it again and again. They get all this from a book that they themselves have changed. The King James Bible that they use to use has been replaced by The New World Translation wherein they use brackets and added on words to misquote Jesus. They have been misquoting their own version of The New World Translation to suit their everchanging doctrines and teachings so many times that the spin on the spin on the spin that keeps on spinning is twisting away.

    Evidently, it seems, it appears to be, are you getting this, wait on Jehovah, forget about what we said in the past, we got new light, it is no longer a 25 watt, or a 65 watt, or a 75 watt, no, those watt days are over. WE now have a 100 Watt new light. Until that 100 Watt new light gets dimmer this is the present truth. Got it, ok , question from readers will follow for all you dimwits that just don't get it. How many pages of responses do you need to get it right?

    If you don't understand any of this, refer to Farkel

    Blueblades

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    Reply to undercover.

    As C.T. himself said;

    " We say then, "cast not away your confidence" in our Leader, "the great shepherd of the sheep."

    If we were following a man undoubtedly it would be different with us; undoubtedly one human idea would contradict another and that which was light one or two or six years ago would be regarded as darkness now: But with God there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning, and so it is with truth; any knowledge or light coming from God must be like its author. A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. "New light" never extinguishes older "light," but adds to it. If you were lighting up a building containing seven gas jets you would not extinguish one every time you lighted another, but would add one light to another and they would be in harmony and thus give increase of light: So is it with the light of truth; the true increase is by adding to, not by substituting one for another." - ZWT, Feb. 1881, p.188 http://www.ctrussell.us/ctrussell/ctrussell.nsf/22284ee7f683acc9862566bd000b278c/dde9a46035aa8847062566e40063abf5?OpenDocument

  • minimus
    minimus

    Strictly speaking, Jesus could not be talking only about ANOINTED ones when he said "THIS generation". As was mentioned, NO ANOINTED EXISTED THEN!

    Blondie mentioned that the bride which is considered ALL of the 144,000, would meet the bridegroom in heaven. under this present understanding, this would be impossible.

  • zack
    zack

    I love this thread!

  • R.Crusoe
    R.Crusoe

    bttt

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