I'm converting again. (page 10)

Junction-Guy

My point is that no-one on this board, or anywhere on this earth (except Jesus and a few biblical people) have ever died (completely) and have come back to the grave to tell us what it's like. There have been alot of near death expereinces and such, but no one in my lifetime or my parents,grandparents lifetime has ever died and been resurrected----So none of us knows first hand what awaits us after death--BUT we do have our own personal beliefs about God and Death, and those are personal to us.

If belief option A (mainly JW's, but a few other religions too) allowed as much freedom as belief option B-----Then there would be very little need for this board, it would be almost empty, with the exception of a few die hard atheists.

Since belief option A is very controlling and has been proven to cause not only emotional harm, but financial as well--Thus the reason for having a board with 25,000+ people all telling their life stories and how the Watchtower almost destroyed their happiness and their life dreams.

serotonin_wraith

Junction-Guy,

If there is a hell, then you will be more inclined to not steal,fornicate, adultery, even if out of a misplaced sense of fear

The more secular a country is, the more likely it is that those things won't be done. So a child will be made to fear the consequences of eternal burning, where the fear of jail seems to be enough for others. I could say to a child 'Be good, or I will pull out all of your hair.' It may make them behave, but it would also be mental abuse.

If you believed in hell and it scared the heck out of you, then at the end of your lifetime you have lost nothing, except maybe a broken marriage, alcoholism, drug abuse, etc etc etc.

And if you're gay, you may miss out on a life where you could be yourself. You may miss out on learning about real science because you've been told God did it. You may miss out on getting real help to your problems because you talk to yourself (pray) instead. You may not think certain medical exploration is ethical, therefore possibly holding back life saving treatments. You may miss out on marriage with someone because they're not in your religion. You may feel it is okay to prolong human suffering by refusing to back euthanasia. You may deny yourself the act of masturbation in fear of offending God. You stand to miss out on a lot. The things you describe can be done without a religion. The things I described usually occur because of religious beliefs.

If I were a Jelly fish worshipper and then discovered that there was a hell, or that there was an armageddon, then basically I have been extremely fooled for a foolish belief, I may still roast for eternity, or may die an eternal death

And if Christians have it wrong, and one of the other gods is real, you may have to face their wrath, so why not believe in them and worship them? You don't miss out on much in this life, and you may get to live forever.

I'll also agree jellyfish worship is kooky. Yet there's just as much reason to believe that as there is to believe in Yahweh - making Yahweh belief kooky too.

So none of us knows first hand what awaits us after death--BUT we do have our own personal beliefs about God and Death, and those are personal to us.

Exactly. Personal to you. When your children are made to believe these things too, then it's not personal.

I'm also not making the point that religion is dangerous (in this thread). If people here are okay telling children their benign religious beliefs, I can only assume they'd be cool with people telling their children giant jellyfish in another galaxy exist.

Burn,

The first 2 do not refer to a belief in a god per se, but in matters pertaining to practice or doctrine.

Yep, but Renee isn't going to tell her kids about any old god, it's a specific god in a specific religion, and there are specific beliefs that go along with that.

As for the 3rd one, is there ANYONE around who worships pink jellyfish sincerely? A real god, it occurs to me, doesn't let faith in him die out once he's revealed himself . Why would he? and that makes me think, has the pink jellyfish revealed himself to anyone? So no, the pink jellyfish is not in the same league as the Christian god.

You've assumed Yahweh has revealed himself to people, and the giant jellyfish hasn't. You may say you could point to people who believe God has revealed himself to them, but then again I could find people who think there are giant jellyfish, or aliens, or that kind of thing, and you wouldn't believe them.

There may be more Christians on the Earth than alien or giant jellyfish believers. So how about when there were only a few Christians on the Earth? Were they wrong because they were outnumbered? If everyone started believing in the giant jellyfish, would it make that belief true?

So you can call it the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisble Pink Unicorn or whatever cutesy names you can think of to get everyones dander up, but what we are referring to the First Cause and Final End, commonly called God.

Assuming you are right in claiming there is some force that is eternal, you somehow make the leap from that to believing Jesus died for our sins. I can't see how.

There is no double standard. We teach our children what we hold to be true.

So you think it's okay for Hindus to teach their children Hindu beliefs, even though that may send them straight to hell when they die? As long as the parent believes it, that's okay. It was okay for the Romans to tell their kids the god Mercury was real? For the Greeks to tell their kids Apollo was real? Even though they were wrong, it was okay to make their kids believe in those gods because they believed in them, and passing off as fact things not based on evidence or reason is fine by you?

I'm glad we don't believe in Apollo now, but perhaps that change came about when parents stopped teaching their children Apollo was real, at an age where they didn't know better. We're in the exact same situation now with the modern gods.

Junction-Guy

Well since Renee lives in America, it is only fitting that she teaches her children about Jesus. She doesnt live in Timbuktu or the jungles of Africa, or some Asian country. She lives in America, and the bible belt at that. Her children will be taught to function well within the culture that is all prevalent around them. Big Kudo's to Renee, at least her children will have a normal life.

lovelylil

Renee,

Sorry I am getting into this discussion so late. Whatever church denomination you feel comfortable with is right for you. I wish you luck in your new Church home.

Just remember though that it is not "denomination" that is important. Christ accepts all those who are in his universal body regardless of church denomination or affilitation, or even if they choose not to belong to an "official" church.

Belonging to a church group or denomination is simply a matter of our personal choice and there is no right or wrong one. So again, if you found a place you fit in and it helps you along your personal spiritual road, I am happy for you.

Peace, Lilly

Junction-Guy

lovelyfil, that is an excellent reply you have given.

serotonin_wraith

Well since Renee lives in America, it is only fitting that she teaches her children about Jesus.

Right, well you think what someone believes about the universe and the plan for Earth and every human on it should be based on where you happen to be born on the Earth.

I think that's a really sh*tty reason to believe anything.

So it's an agree to disagree situation I guess.

SickofLies

Religious

expression

protest

illusory

demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.

Junction-Guy

You're right it is, Im proud to be an American and I value the traditions and customs of this nation. Im thankful I was born in the free world, even though that freedom was almost snuffed out by a Cult.

5go

I agree with dawg's earlier comment why join a ~~religion~~ team. Pick up games rock!

I find no one is ever going to agree 100% with any religion. So why bother with any of them. Read your holy book, and share it with others yourself. You might over time find that you don't need that holy book after all. 9 times out of 10 you aren't living by it enough anyway.

5go

I'm thankful I was born in the free world, even though that freedom was almost snuffed out by a Cult.

Why can you say religion that I don't profess to believe anymore, or something to that effect. You said you don't like your religion being called a cult by athiest. JW's still lack several features to make them a true cult for now this makes us look bitter to outsiders.

I'm converting again.

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