I'm converting again. (page 7)

drew sagan

For those who think of all religion as merely a cult they should probably also examine their judicial systems, education systems, parental mores and TV/Movie regulatory mechanisms. Everything in life is designed to regulate us socially to an acceptable "norm". Religion is only one facet of that, but one that many people find useful psychologically, emotionally and socially.

I made a somewhat similar comment in the "should we get rid of religion?" thread a few days ago. It didn't prove to be much of a conversation point.

In these kind of debates I guess it's just more fun to fight to the death

jgnat

Renee, you might enjoy some "Mystery Shopping" accounts at various presbyterian churches here:

http://shipoffools.com/cgi-bin/mysearch.pl?sselect=http%3A%2F%2Fshipoffools.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmysearch.pl&siteid=36475660&bfpage=question4&bfmid=31103363&scope=web&origin=nnnn&qSource=n&q=presbyterian&safe=vss&vss=1&sa=Google&resultspage=searchresults2.htm&ask=presbyterian&Go.x=11&Go.y=12

http://shipoffools.com

I like their toung-in-cheek accounts. Many are hilarious. This way, you can get an idea of their flavor.

Trygon, you are quite ignorant on religion. In North America we have the Episoplian and Anglican churches which, I believe, have their roots in the English brand of protestantism.

Vernon Williams

Re,

Just a thought or two.

Here is something surprising that I have noted about the JWs that continue to approach Christianity with an open mind and do not recoil from truthfulness:

They journey toward the Historic Church: Anglican, Roman, and Orthodox.

You have moved from a very Protastant group (Baptist) to a more "midldle" ground group. The Prebs are closer to the Historic Church than the Baptists. I think it may be a part of Journey.....

My personal email:

[email protected]

or you can PM me if you want to follow up on this comment.....

Yours in this Journey,

V

Witness 007

Whatever makes you and your family happy is a good thing! In Australia the Presbyterians merged with the Congregationalist church to form one religion "The Uniting Church." Some individual churches however have chosen not to merge.

sinis

Why is it that you feel you need religion?
When I escaped from the grasp of the cult, I ran - I ran as fast as I could from any thing remotely religous. It felt to me that the folks used it as a crutch to get by in their sad life, that they NEED the hope of something bigger than what we have right here and now on this amazing earth.
I didn't chose Him because I needed a hope. I belive that God chose me. God put a VERY strong love for HIM inside of me. I desire to be with him and with His people.
It is like asking me why I a husband. I don't know -- I just love him and I can't imagine being without him.
So, what is the truth?
The truth is that Jesus died to pay the penalty for my sin. The works I do in His name are merely a thank you in advance.

What ever peels your potatoe. Yet I ask ONE specific question - How do YOU know that God really called you, and that its not your inner psyche, through an over zealous emotional response driving your thoughts?

Some other questions, and or views that I would hope you would look at, is have you researched the beginnings of Christianity, I mean REALLy research the? Counsel of Trent, Nicea, etc.

I would also agree with the premise that religion is an emotional crutch - it tries to fulfill voids that could otherwise be filled through other means - without the feeling of guilt, can't do enough, the ends coming, going to heaven, going to hell, etc. Look at it this way, what if you are lieing on your death bed and you find out that religion is a farce, no matter what form it takes? Why does God, need his ego stroked by church goers? Surely he must understand that he created us and therefore should enjoy life to the fullest now, not in some fantasy land that has not been confirmed. How selfish it would be for god to give you X amount of time on this rock and expect, not demand, that you use it praising him, and blowing the only commodity he gave you (time) by going to church.

Which pill will you swallow - the Blue or the Red?

Trygon

I'd rather not swallow ether. I don't accept drugs from strangers.

BurnTheShips

I know this question was for someone else but I wanted to comment.

What ever peels your potatoe. Yet I ask ONE specific question - How do YOU know that God really called you, and that its not your inner psyche, through an over zealous emotional response driving your thoughts?

How do I KNOW? I don't. I can only assume my experience is authentic. Just as I can only assume that the person who posted this comment that I am experiencing is a real human being with a mind like myself. We can't KNOW anything in and of itself. We can only KNOW what we experience of that thing. I believe I have experienced something I call "God". That is a good enough reason for me.

Some other questions, and or views that I would hope you would look at, is have you researched the beginnings of Christianity, I mean REALLy research the? Counsel of Trent, Nicea, etc.

I have. I have tried to educate myself on these things, some would say too much (it takes time from more practical matters).

I would also agree with the premise that religion is an emotional crutch - it tries to fulfill voids that could otherwise be filled through other means - without the feeling of guilt, can't do enough, the ends coming, going to heaven, going to hell, etc.

The problem with the whole crutch theory is that it is the pot calling the kettle black. Read this article by Paul Vitz, "The Psychology of Atheism" which basically suggests that atheists are really projecting their conflicts with their parents onto the universe.

I could say that not having religion is a crutch for the individual because:

A. He/She does not want to believe that there are any consequences to what is done in this life.
B. He/She needs to believe it to think he/she knows it all.
C. He/She is harboring some type of guilt/problems, and is hoping that there is not god who will judge him/her regarding them.

Why does God, need his ego stroked by church goers?

You are projecting your ego on to God. God does not need his ego stroked. My God humbled Himself, to the point of taking human form and dying on the Cross. If he calls us, it is not to stroke his ego, but because He loves us and wants us to know Him.

Surely he must understand that he created us and therefore should enjoy life to the fullest now

Well, living life to the fullest is a pretty subjective concept? What if I felt that my life was not full without a religious aspect?

How selfish it would be for god to give you X amount of time on this rock and expect, not demand, that you use it praising him, and blowing the only commodity he gave you (time) by going to church.

My God did not just give me X time on this rock. He has given me eternity. I have plenty of time, in this life and the next. You, apparently, only have X time.

I don't.

Burn.

Lo-ru-hamah

I just had a rather lengthy conversation with a friend about the differences between Catholic, Baptist and JW. He said that they all three make very similar demands

on your time and they all have the same sort of fear factor that motivates you to continue your service. He has personally chosen to be a Baptist. He said that Catholics

think that they believe in Christ but they really don't. Therefore, because they don't really know that they don't believe in Christ then they will die and burn in hell at the

final hour because they don't really have the faith. He said that they had gone to a Presbertyian church and they really did seem to study the bible, having 3 and 4 translations

available. It sounded educational. After the conversation it reinforced in my mind that I don't care to ever belong to a church. They all seem so ready to send you to

hell and I have had enough of that, hell, the lake of fire, everlasting death. Whichever you choose they all seem to be rather judmental.

My personal preference is summed up in the Dalai Lama's words: "This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy, our

own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.

Though, Renesorym, I do understand your desire to teach your children about the bible and the things that you believe. I hope that you and

your family find hapiness and enlightenment in whatever course you desire.

reneeisorym

I don't even know where to begin.

Why all the people who are fed up with organized religion think I should be fed up too, I don't understand. I really like going and I enjoy the company. I enjoy having people to talk about the Bible with, pray with, have fun with, and worship with. Perhaps I could get all of those things outside of a church but why when I'm getting those needs met at church? It isn't like they tell me what to do and how to behave like JWs do. Enough about that.

I went to this church Sunday. I really enjoyed it. The preacher gave a really nice sermon. The music wasn't like going to a play -- it was just very peaceful and nice to be singing with the rest. I loved the atmosphere. I can't wait to go back. We're planning to go to their Christmas Eve service and I suspect that will be very nice.

I enjoyed reading all of the comments.

Renee

serotonin_wraith

I have to press this for your children's sake, and you kinda left the private debate/chat we were having a while back. This religion seems to be what you need/want, and if so, good for you. But can you please allow your children to know about other beliefs, not just yours? I really don't think it would be fair on them to only know about what you believe. They're not you.

I'm converting again.

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