The Hope For Our Dying Home-Earth...An Inconvenient Truth

by justhuman 99 Replies latest jw friends

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  besty

  Thanks Greg :-)

  BTL - you managed to take 8 words from my post (out of context I may add - I also noted we DO need fossil fuels, to eat the way we have become accustomed to) and launch into a fairly boring explanation of food production. Or something. <eyes glaze over> Explaining the nuances of ammonia seems to give you an all over glow - kinda like when you wet yourself but don't realize why you feel so warm and good..mmmm....ammonia....

  Shame you felt the need to ignore the points of common interest I tried to find and also my complaint about your abusive language (Matt. 18:15) I fear I may have to bring along one or two others and maybe even the congregation.

  FYI my family lived a subsistence lifestyle on a desolate island in the Atlantic Ocean for 4 years with little requirement for the fossil fuel economy you describe. There are plenty people in many countries that are doing likewise today. Why? And why can't I find any reference to deaths related to a lack of treebark?

  Any comment on millenia of viable human life before oil and coal were being harvested on a grand scale? How ever did we manage to evolve without drilling holes in the seabed?

  In the interests of science and fair play I'm willing to run the risk of slow death from boredom when I read your reply.
• 

  Bring_the_Light

  BTL - you managed to take 8 words from my post (out of context I may add - I also noted we DO need fossil fuels, to eat the way we have become accustomed to) and launch into a fairly boring explanation of food production. Or something. <eyes glaze over> Explaining the nuances of ammonia seems to give you an all over glow - kinda like when you wet yourself but don't realize why you feel so warm and good..mmmm....ammonia....

  You've managed to imply that I'm a user of fallacious argument and ignorant in a public setting and piss me the f**k off.

  Your entire input here has been:

  1. There is a coming disaster (Armageddon)

  2. Human imperfection/BAD decisions is the cause of this coming disaster.

  3. The reason for this human imperfection is that some people do not have "the truth", that we need to be nicer to mother nature.

  4. The real problem is there are some who refuse to accept "the truth" and they use fallacious arguments like "appeals to authority" to lead others away from "the truth".

  5. We only need faith, TO KNOW THE TRUTH that these things people do to try to provide for their fellow man are silly, they won't solve man's problems "THAT WAY". Only faith in "the truth" that we are sinners who needlessly squander resources and pollute the earth is necessary to prevent/survive the coming disaster. If we just stop doing evil things, the coming disaster will be averted.

  6. Those who would use fossil fuel to provide for the needs of people are under Satans control. God provides, there is no need to do things this way. It is done this way for the sole purpose of being selfish, evil or foolish.

  7. I am good, because I know the truth, that just wanting to be nicer to mother Earth is what I need to do. I'm not a part of Satans world, I am not the problem. I am good. By having this attitude, I am helping. (mental masturbation)

  8. Its not fair if someone comments on the validity of my position, its my religion <- there it is.
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  Bring_the_Light

  FYI my family lived a subsistence lifestyle on a desolate island in the Atlantic Ocean for 4 years with little requirement for the fossil fuel economy you describe.

  My my, yes if only the other 6 BILLION people who need to get fed had your elevated moral character.

  There are plenty people in many countries that are doing likewise today. Why? And why can't I find any reference to deaths related to a lack of treebark?

  If we were together in person and you were to state that you think people in non-industrialized third world nations have plenty of food at this juncture of the conversation, I would slap you. HARD

  You've forfeited your claim to being indignant about being described as ignorant. This is an astonishing level of ignorance.

  Any comment on millenia of viable human life before oil and coal were being harvested on a grand scale? How ever did we manage to evolve without drilling holes in the seabed?

  By the weakest dying and the most fit successfully procreating before the end of their short lives.

  In the interests of science and fair play I'm willing to run the risk of slow death from boredom when I read your reply.

  Far slower than your death if your mindset were allowed to make any real decisions about providing for the needs of humanity I am sure.
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  SPAZnik

  ((((earth))))
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  besty

  You've managed to imply that I'm a user of fallacious argument and ignorant in a public setting and piss me the f**k off

  What does snail? mean?

  Adding these two posts togethers allows me no option but to conclude you are a bit slow, like a snail, ponderous, without showing much progress. Congratulations on your academic achievements to date. I'm sure your parents are proud and surprised in equal measure.

  Goodbye BringTheLight. If your phone isn't ringing, it's me.

  Hopefully some other posters can get this thread back on track before BTL compares me to Adolf Hitler.

  PS your offer to slap me, hard, - yes please - I like a bit of correction and discipline. Normally I pay good money but if you are offering....
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  Eyes Open

  You buy your food with money... [...]

  Thanks for the summary, BTL, showing that burning fossil fuels is embedded in our current way of life. In your opinion, is it viable that elements of what you described can be gradually converted to non-carbon dioxide emitting processes without causing the damage of which you speak?
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  Bring_the_Light

  The point I'm trying to make here is that Industry is no more trying to destroy the earth than "Worldly" people are trying to serve Satan. There is an astonishingly tight parallel between the mentality of Jehovah's Witnesses and the way people think when they get zealous about environmental issues. Once you walk in my shoes for a day, the most starkly obvious recognition is environmental protection and good decisions are not a question of good and evil. Every single ad hominem attack whether against people or against corporations, industries etc is fallacy.

  I feel the need to rant on the topic because much like I've seen the JW mentality cause a lot of damage, so has the mentality of most environmental activists. Those I've had the displeasure to work with are litterally so ignorant of the real issues that it isn't even possible to surrender to them and give them what "they want", they don't know what they want, because they don't know what they're talking about. Everyone who isn't a JW is under Satans control. Everyone who isn't fighting industry at every turn is an evil polluter pants.

  Its as hard to explain this to Mr. InsultmeandclaimI'mthejerk and those like him as it is to explain to a JW that IT DOES matter if Jerusalem didn't fall in 607 (ie there's no reason for your religion to exist without the correctness of that date).

  The only way to change the basis of current industrialization is to find viable alternatives. The average light thinker on this topic assumes that "evil Oil executives" are conspiring to prevent viable alternatives. There are "all kinds" of replacements that if we just obeyed Jehovah and chose them, everything would be ok. The very stark reality is that the alternatives look very much like a doomsday scenario relative to Coal, Oil and Gas. (I work in Alternative fuels, this is not propoganda from an evil oil man).

  It isn't about good and evil or intention. It is about what God has made available to us, and real technological necessities. It is important to recognize that the flippant attitude that "lets stop using fossil fuel" just in case Global Waming is true is no more rational than "Lets shun our family so we make it through Armageddon". These are HUGELY weighty things on which the life and death of real people pivots. It ain't about slogans or ganging up on those who don't cheer on our slogans or hug the f'n earth with parentheses.

  Talk about environmental concerns, don't sell ignorance as the one true religion. We've all seen how much damage that can do.

  Bring_the_Light
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  beksbks

  I do not pretend to be a big brain, but there are some points that are quite clear here. We grow and change. We discover some wonderful new thing, and 10,20,100 years later, we discover it is actually harmful. So we adapt, we come up with new ways of doing things. Just because there may be money to make in exploring green technologies does not mean it's a "scam". People used to crap out of the window, and let the rain wash it down into their water supply, until they realized it was causing cholera and the like. I'm sure there was resistance to change then too. Addressing environmental issues now is just progress. How many examples do we need to see, before we are convinced? I just got back from Mexico, and I'm damned happy we have emission controls, regulations on vehicles etc. It's amazing the difference you feel when taking a breath. And they are improving. I mentioned Super Fund sites earlier. I think for the most part, the polluters didn't know any better, now we do, and are left cleaning up the mess. Same thing here, we are discovering the negative aspects of our lifestyle, and it's time to start moving in another direction. And who is naive enough to think that "evil oil executives" will not do whatever they have to to protect their interests? Why is that so much more difficult to believe, than the idea that scientists from all over the world have gotten together to put one over on us? To what end? Sell some solar panels??? Put Exxon out of business?
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  Eyes Open

  Indeed. There is a big difference in choosing to place trust in the findings of scientists to the extent of acting on them, and believing the teachings of a bible cult. Suggesting the two things are one and the same makes one's argument seem weak to my mind.
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  Anti-Christ

  I know that we are were we are because of our technology and the way we use oil. If we just stop using oil right now we would kill off a lot of people. I think it would be nice if we were not has dependent on other people and oil to live but we are. It annoys me that I live in a apartment and I have no land. I really depend on other people to produce my food, clothing and to take care of me when I'm sick. That for me is the real problem, I am a comfortable slave.