Earth is a big place. Mother will kill off the lice before they eat her. Otherwise crapping in your back yard is a bad idea.
The Hope For Our Dying Home-Earth...An Inconvenient Truth
by justhuman 99 Replies latest jw friends
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Gregor
Solar is great but doesn't even come close to making a significant impact on demand in a viable, cost effective, way. The US has abundant resources of natural gas and oil but they are prevented from using them because of environmental politics. Technological advances in nuclear powerplants are being exploited by other countries like Japan and France with long, long histories of safe, dependable and economical power. Once again, the anti-everything political machine has stopped the US from developing this resource. So here we are. Buying a goddamn little Toyota Prepuce to save a few bucks on mileage that will pay for itself in say, 300,000 miles. Whoops, almost forgot the battery replacement. Make that NEVER pencil out.
Of all people, I would think XJWs would be a little more sophisticated about geo-political/quasi religious scams.
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Gregor
Yes, that's right . China and Cuba are actively exploring oil fields 50 miles from Key West, Florida while U.S. companies are barred from working in this area because of U.S. policy . So, instead of allowing the most environmentally responsible companies to operate there and increase our domestic supply, China, who has a dismal environmental record, is preparing to suck our close, lucrative oil reserves dry.
Unbelievable.
Investor's Business Daily recently explained how irresponsible the Democrats have been on the energy crisis. They lay into what they consider to be the worst Congress ever
for ...
~ Failing to allow drilling in ANWR. We have, as President Bush noted, estimated capacity of a million barrels of oil a day from this source alone -- enough for 27 million gallons of gas and diesel. But Congress won't touch it, fearful of the clout of the environmental lobby. As a result, you pay through the nose at the pump so your representative can raise campaign cash.
~ Refusing to build new refineries. The U.S. hasn't built one since 1976, yet the EPA requires at least 15 unique 'boutique' fuel blends that can be sold in different areas around the nation. This means that U.S. refinery capacity is stretched so tight that even the slightest problem at a refinery causes enormous supply problems and price spikes. Congress has done nothing about this.
~ Turning its back on nuclear power. It's safe and, with advances in nuclear reprocessing technology, waste problems have been minimized. Still, we have just 104 nuclear plants -- the same as a decade ago -- producing just 19% of our total energy. (Many European nations produce 40% or more of their power with nuclear.) Granted, nuclear power plants are expensive -- about $3 billion each. But they produce energy at $1.72/kilowatt-hour vs. $2.37 for coal and $6.35 for natural gas.
~ Raising taxes on energy producers. This is where a basic understanding of economics would help: Higher taxes and needless regulation lead to less production of a commodity. So by proposing 'windfall' and other taxes on energy companies plus tough new rules, Congress only makes our energy situation worse.
These are just a few of Congress' sins of omission -- all while India, China, Eastern Europe and the Middle East are adding more than a million barrels of new demand each and every year. New Energy Department forecasts see world oil demand growing 40% by 2030, including a 28% increase in the U.S.
Americans who are worried about the direction of their country, including runaway energy and food prices, should keep in mind the upcoming election isn't just about choosing a new president. We'll also pick a new Congress. -
Bring_the_Light
Lets start with an appeal to authority fallacy:
I'm a Chemical Engineer and an Environmental Consultant so I speak with a little bit of authority on this.
Add a liitle bit of generalization fallacy along with some strawman:
Environmental issues are very similiar to religion with the people knowing the least preaching the loudest.
Top it off with some appeal to fear fallacy:
First, you would all most likely be dead if not for the Oil and Gas industry, if you don't immediately know why I say that, please shut up long enough to learn about the pre-industrialized world.
Where to start with this gem from an "environmental consultant"?
You don't like it, do something better, don't know what to do better? cool shut up and quit annoying the people who matter in the world and are keeping you alive.
Boy am I glad you are consulting on our environment Bring The Light.....
Please help me understand what you are trying to say here:
The concept of anthropogenic climate change is very important, however virtually nothing you'll hear about it is anything more than propoganda and religion.
There's a few double negatives and all, making it tricky to get your point...but it seems you are dismissing the NAS and IPCC findings on the subject. Interesting.
edit: POSTED BY BESTY - SweetPea is far more forgiving
Ha! Just found this. Nice. You know that feeling you get when dubs stare at you incredulously and imply that you're CRAZY if you don't get ready for Armageddon RIGHT AWAY because its SO SOON! ? Well yeah, I'm feelin' that now. Lets just nip a few shall we? 1. Appeal to Authority Fallacy: Only a fallacy when the appeal to authority is deceptive. Since I'm not actually trying to convince you of anything, just sharing my perspective, I certainly don't have any reason to be deceptive. I do have a much, much clearer perspective on the issue of Global Warming than you do due to my education and profession. I ACTUALLY benefit from YOUR perspective, yet I criticize it, why? because our perspective is lacking and I'm just pointing it out for the satisfaction of sharing knowledge and perspective with my fellow man (people). 2. Generalization: Again, generalization is only a fallacy when it obfuscates the issue by generalizing away from the point. My point is EXACTLY that I experience, frequently, mentalities which are very analogous to religious thinking/fanatacism and my exact point (not generalization) is that I find this annoying. I am specifically, not generally, making an analogy between two kinds of fallacious thinking, fanatical religious zeal in the absense of knowledge and fanatical political/environmental zeal in the absense of knowledge. The only thing you know on the topic of Global Climate Change I would venture to surmise is what people tell you. Your perception of what "is going to happen" comes only from others telling you "what is going to happen". That you cannot see the parallel with Jehovah's Witnesses means of gaining their "truth" is amazing. Jehovah's Witnesses also can't understand analogies between them and other cults. Think on that. 3. Oil and Gas/Industrialization are not minor luxuries. BILLIONS of people now alive, would be dead, without it. Billions with a "B". Your ability to EAT FOOD REQUIRES that fossil fuels are consumed and greenhouse gasses are emitted into the atmosphere. If greenhouse gasses do not go into the atmosphere, if fossil fuel is not consumed, FOOD will not go into your mouth. How else can I put this? Fossil fuel isn't about SUV's, it isn't about wasting energy that doesn't need to be wasted, in the 20th century it is an ABSOLUTELY unavoidable necessity to drive ALL of the prosperity that has propped the human condition higher than it HAS EVER been in history. When you engage in your self-righteous mental masturbation that use of fossil fuels is unnecessary and just some exorbitant luxury enjoyed by selfish people who don't care about the planet, you are not just annoying, you are dangerous. If you do the kind of extreme things that would be necessary to cut Greenhouse Gas emissions absent a rational migration to Carbon free energy over a period of decades, you will kill real people. Real people will die, because of your choice based on an idea followed due to a religious mentality. A captive of a concept. It was not an appeal to fear, it was an appeal to education. You don't know how the world works, I'm just trying to explain to you that you need to get a better handle on that before you can make a good decision on this topic. 4. I'll see if I can help with the very analogy I was trying to make: The concept of anthropogenic climate change is very important, however virtually nothing you'll hear about it is anything more than propoganda and religion. = The meaning of life is very important, however virtually nothing a religious zealot will ever say about it is anything more than propaganda (and err. religion). I don't have any more agenda than you do when trying to explain something to a JW. When you see the Light, you want to share the light. You aren't debating with a dumb Bush Republican, you're talking to a Chemical Engineer who has and intends to spend his life advancing solutions to the very problems you care about. All I'm telling you is you need to drastically expand your understanding to be any use at all to that end. That has nothing to do with my being a poop head (the intellectual level of your "analysis" of my comments) Bring_the_Light
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Bring_the_Light
Perhaps we will all benefit from an apostate viewpoint? I'm not telling you that this guy "has the truth" I'm telling you that you need to hear this perspective. Be careful Global Warming enthusiasts will shun you and spread rumors if they catch you with apostate material like this.
Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN06JSi-SW8
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besty
Thanks for clearing all that up BTL - most informative - good luck with your ongoing work for planet earth and its inhabitants - we agree on more than you might think.
I don't agree we need to burn fossil fuels to eat. Millions of years of evolution, coupla hundred years of fossil fuel utilisation. We do need fossil fuels to eat in the way we have become accustomed to.
I do find the language you have used personally abusive and aggresive and also assumes a lot about my point of view, my education, my knowledge on this topic and in general - self-righteous mental masturbation, apparently I don't know how the world works, etc. If you knew anything about me, which you don't, you probably wouldn't say that. Given that you PM'd SweetPea, my wife, and told her you didn't even know I had a JWD account I can safely assume you haven't read any of my posts on this thread (or the other 600+ I have made in the last 3 years) so once again I will cut and paste my only stated opinion on this subject:
FWIW my personal opinion is it makes more sense to be gentle with Nature - its not there to be 'conquered' by humans, as if such a thing were possible - particularly our consumption of finite resources. Why not be a bit more careful with what we are doing on a personal level
I think the debate isn't really about global warming being manmade or not - that seems to be a focal point for a more fundamental difference on how we, the Western peoples, evolve our lifestyle. The poles being highly consumptive of resources, or minimally invasive and in harmony with nature. And of course n shades of gray in between.
I think there is enough on this thread for most people on JWD to form a humble opinion on the topic.
Besty
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Gregor
Besty,
Well put.
Thank you
Greg
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Bring_the_Light
I don't agree we need to burn fossil fuels to eat.
Outstanding. You've made my point, and while I'm annoyed in very much the same way as I originally posted to rant about, I appreciate the opportunity to spank your mentally masturbating ass into some glimmer of understanding after which my hope of discussing the salvation of the world with people who aren't ignorant will get a small but perceptible boost. I have no illusions of success, but it feels good to try.
You buy your food with money. Money you earn after you burn fossil fuel to haul your ignorant ass to work. You work somewhere where the factors of production (whatever they are, materials, equipment, parts, paper, frickin' bottle of white-out or a paper clip) to make your product or service are brought to your workplace by vehicles that burn fossil fuel. The factories that made the car you drive to work and the trucks that brought the factors of production for your product or service burned fossil fuel to extract the steel from the ground, process the steel from mineral form to metal form, bend/mold/extrude the steel into the various parts that compose the car or truck and the vehicles that brought the vehicles to the places where the vehicles are sold also burn fossil fuel to do that. When you take your money that you got from burning fossil fuel you will buy food that was fertilized by Ammonia that was created at a plant which uses the Haber process to convert Natural Gas (a fossil fuel) and atmospheric nitrogen (N2) to Ammonia (NH3). Without this factory that consumes fossil fuel to make a vital nutrient to grow your food, there would not be even a tiny fraction of the nutrient available to grow the food that is currently grown. Not having Ammonia means far less food than mankind currently needs. There alone, people starve without fossil fuel (not to mention that nobody would have access to food off their own back 40 to eat anyways because to bring the food to people or to bring people to food, fossil fuel is consumed. To bring this fossil-fuel derived vital nutrient to the farms that grow your food, yes, it is loaded onto trucks or trains that burn fossil fuel to bring it to the fields. When Farmer Johnson buys fertilizer to grow your food, he drags the nutrient on a trailer behind a tractor, that burns fossil fuel. When farmer johnson plows his field it emits the same greenhouse gasses to atmosphere as are emitted when you burn fossil fuel. Pesticides and other chemicals derived from fossil fuel are applied to ensure that your food is eaten by you and not enormous swarms of insects. When your food survives thanks to fossil fuel and is ready for harvest, it is harvested by tractors that burn fossil fuel, loaded onto trucks that burn fossil fuel, by equipment that burns fossil fuel. The trucks then burn fossil fuel to transport your food to some local store which is lighted, heated, ventillated and cooled by equipment that runs on electricity generated from burning fossil fuel. You then take your fossil fuel derived money and your fossil fuel derived and fueled car to the fossil fuel operated store to buy your fossil fuel chilled, packaged, preserved, grown, and transported food.
If I take your fossil fueled life support out from around you, you will die desperately trying to gnaw at tree bark to calm your hunger pains or at the hands of the desperate man next to you who wants to gnaw the bark to calm his. Be informed, you are a fool in the grand tradition of a Jehovah's Witness. Ignorance is grand, so long as it sounds righteous. It all works fine until your ignorant ideas are actually put into practice and somebody gets hurt.
I hope you find this illuminating.
Bring_the_Light
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Bring_the_Light
What does snail? mean?