Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa 407 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  jgnat

  Just a thought, Reniaa. Would the Jewish festivals be considered as part of the "law"? Are they an obligation or a celebration? These festivals, at least four recorded in the Hebrew scriptures, certainly would not be considered "pagan". There are also no scriptures contemning the practice. We know that Jesus celebrated at least one Jewish holiday before he died.

  http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/People/Jewish+Festivals+in+Israel.htm

  http://www.jcrelations.net/en/?item=925

  Yet the JW's only have one (two if you count the convention). Don't you think the Jehovah's Witnesses are markedly deficient in holidays, celebrations, and festivals, biblically speaking? I'll forgive you if you don't know what you are missing. But I suggest there is a fundamental need for human beings to regularly celebrate. I've mentioned an example above on how it marks the positive memories of childhood.

  I am also reminded of the testimony of an extreme cult in Australia, where there was no marking of days one from the other. The children were raised in endless monotony. I was impressed that an adult child recalled very few details or incidents from her childhood. For her, it was one big blur of sameness.
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  justhuman

  Actually Russell would have joined the Dawn Bible Students Associaton...they are the real followers of Russell. JW's have nothing to do with the Bible Students founded by Russell
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  Mary

  Reniaa said: The last one was on pagan issues, now here I will use scripture and you tell me does the principle here mean that jesus was saying because he alowed the lesser things like threshing grain in your hands on sabbath you could can do the bigger ones? now for me there is a world of difference between word origin in weekdays, a ring and a pagan festival still practised with Full rituals and basically unchanged in that practise for 100's of years even if some meanings are obscured.

  Yet another example of you trying to skirt the issue Reniaa. You are asserting your own personal opinion (or at least that of the Watchtower) as to what 'pagan' practices are 'acceptable' and which ones aren't. You have not provided any logical, scriptural or even factual reason for doing so, beyond speculation. Who gets to decide which 'pagan' practices are acceptable and which ones aren't? And on what scriptural basis do they do so?
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  ex-nj-jw

  Didn't you guys have this conversation with Renaii last year around this time? Feels awefully familliar, I think she trying to get in her Christmas preaching time early so she can celebrate the holidays with no worries

  nj
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  Amyfa

  I know weddings are in the bible but I can't remember seeing anniversaries being celebrated mentioned in there.
  So if its not mentioned in there and anniversaries are celebrated then the anniversary of your birth can be celebrated as well.
  Makes sense to me.
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  Mary

  ex-ng-jw said: Didn't you guys have this conversation with Renaii last year around this time? Feels awefully familliar, I think she trying to get in her Christmas preaching time early so she can celebrate the holidays with no worries

  LOL.....Ya, you're right hon......maybe she's pioneering this month.
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  insearchoftruth

  10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11 What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

  The above is quoted from Matthew, how, using the Bible, does equating a blood transfusion with 'eating blood' being condemned relate to this scripture???
• 

  isaacaustin

  I am going to sum up all of this...at least on the holiday part...

  The fact of the matter is that Paul in the NT has said plainly on multiple occasions not to judge one on their observance or lack thereof of a day. He states that one's actions toward a day are toward the Lord. He speaks extensively of the use of one's conscience. This would plainly rule out disfellowshipping or even viewing as weak or unChristian an individual based on their obsevance or nonobservance of a day.

  The WT uses the claim of pagan roots/origins as a basis to disallow many things. At the same time they allow other things that similarly have pagan roots. They basically claim some things as gnats while others as camels. By what right do they do this? By what right can they claim birthdays worng due to their pagan roots yet allow anniversaries and wedding rings which have similarly pagan roots. The fact of the matter is that a majority of things in our everyday life have their routs in paganism...days/months/wedding rings and we could go much further. However nearly all of these things have lost their original meaning and mean something entirely different. The only reason we are all so aware of the pagan origin of thisngs forbidden by the WT is because the WT very aggressively makes its members aware- they are the one with the problem. The WT can not have it both ways- they either have to blanketly and consistently apply this pagan roots logic to all or nothing. The excuse "what are we supposed to do, rename the days and months...this is a minor thing.." doesn't hold any water. If it is wrong, it is wrong. The WT has enforced overbearing methods on a host of other things it doesn't want its members to do.

  I will finally say that there is no direct scripture or clear principle in the Bible that forbids the observance of Christams or other holidays. Simply not there. Reniaa's argument of that doesn't mean it is right has no substance. She has simply used red herrings and circular reasoning here. And I don't think i need to comment on blood transfusions...save that for another day.
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  Mary

  Thank you issacaustin.

  Reniaa seems to be labouring under the delusion that JWD is like the Kingdom Hall where just because something is asserted, it must be taken as gospel truth. Hopefully she's realized that if you're going make an accusation like she has, you better have something more than just speculation and personal opinions to back it up.
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  isaacaustin

  Yes Mary,

  I think if nothing else...many of us have learned to critically think to to deconstruct assertions built on faulty logic.