Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?
by reniaa 407 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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junctions-wife
Ok, I am going to try to explain something that I remember from my childhood.
On Christmas Eve, the family would gather around the kitchen table or around Grandpa's recliner. He would have the family Bible in his hand, it was time for our bedtime story. The only story he would read for us that night was the Christmas Story, the birth of Jesus Christ. All of us kids would wait the whole year for this one special night. It was better than our Christmas presents under the tree or what Santa was bringing. That is the best Christmas memory I have. Yes I agree to a certain point that Christmas has gotten to commercial but at the same time, the only people we have to blame is ourselves. We elect governmental officials into office, And they take out God, Jesus in schools, work place, all most everywhere. But they still take an oath with the word "God" in there. If we are ever going to fix this we have to start with ourselves. And remember the true reason for the season. It should not be based on how much money you spend on each other or the latest hi-tech electronics. This country was found on a new Christianity, we need to remember that!
Thanks for my say,
Amanda
Just a note I was never a JW, I married into that cult, and it ruined my marriage. I have always believed in the Bible and in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
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sacolton
Again, why does the WTBT$ acknowledge marriages from "false religions" and not baptism? Double standard?
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independent_tre
Just read all eight pages of this thread, and while there doesn't seem to be a need for any more questions to be raised for Reniaa to answer, I have to agree that she has not answered them according to the scriptures. Anyone can go on debating forever by using 'what if' scenarios, personal opinions, inordinate comparison (apples and oranges), exaggerations and unsupported facts. I would like to see Mary's, lil's, and outlaws questions answered clearly according to the Bible, But I don't think that's going to happen.
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Rabbit
1st -- it was the JW's that I gave up after 35 years.
2nd -- was the Bible that JW's believed in.
3rd -- every other religious writing & belief system I have come cross -- all have that same smell. The odor of Social Control using the fear of the 'unseen powerful gods' that they tell us we should have 'faith' in -- or else !
4th -- I'm happily, open-mindedly agnostic -- show me.
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reniaa
hi independent_tre, grats on the 8 pages :) i was struggling but only because I find the server delay annoying, were replies can appear after you already read a page so i'm on my third reread of the pages and still finding some that weren't on last time i read.
Just read all eight pages of this thread, and while there doesn't seem to be a need for any more questions to be raised for Reniaa to answer, I have to agree that she has not answered them according to the scriptures . Anyone can go on debating forever by using 'what if' scenarios, personal opinions, inordinate comparison (apples and oranges), exaggerations and unsupported facts. I would like to see Mary's, lil's, and outlaws questions answered clearly according to the Bible, But I don't think that's going to happen.
I'll be honest I didn't want to get to scriptural because I did want this thread to be more as an enquiry on the difference of loss of faith in an organisation or the source aka bible, it has certainly brought up a lot of interesting responses which I hope have made the thread worth the read.
As for lil, outlaw and mary well if you want scriptural I will go there but on two it wasn't scriptural they wanted so here goes they can correct me if I'm wrong.
Outlaw was trying to make the point that angels rejoicing in the bible was a celebration/party and my reply was to basically say erm it's just rejoicing. Now on this I will let the reader use there own judgement, I used a dictionary were you get a straight definition rejoicing is exactly what it is rejoicing, Outlaw had to use a thesaurus to support his view through synonyms because first he's changing rejoice to celebrate then using the fact you have 2 meanings to celebrate one is to rejoice the other is to have a party. On this premise I can pretty much get anything to mean anything, I can get from circle to square using only synonyms. lol I will leave it you you guys to decide which of us is twisting meanings to their own ends :)
The next question brought up was on suicides now if you look back at my posts this is something I never mentioned I just said police and hospitals dread christmas someone else did the suicide thing, personally I had googled it and was thinking on heart attacks and over-drinking but in my error I was lumping new year with christmas, I have now checked the suicide rates just because of being accused of it :S but find while people do commit suicide all year round it's no higher on hols than at any other time.
The last one was on pagan issues, now here I will use scripture and you tell me does the principle here mean that jesus was saying because he alowed the lesser things like threshing grain in your hands on sabbath you could can do the bigger ones? now for me there is a world of difference between word origin in weekdays, a ring and a pagan festival still practised with Full rituals and basically unchanged in that practise for 100's of years even if some meanings are obscured now with a lie about christianity tagged on which itself is no longer being remembered by average jo even the name Christmas is becoming Xmas to make it fit better. So basically saying having one alcoholic drink is the same as getting totally drunk?
Luke 6
Lord of the Sabbath
1 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2 Some of the Pharisees asked, "Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"3 Jesus answered them, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions." 5 Then Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
6 On another Sabbath he went into the synagogue and was teaching, and a man was there whose right hand was shriveled. 7 The Pharisees and the teachers of the law were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal on the Sabbath. 8 But Jesus knew what they were thinking and said to the man with the shriveled hand, "Get up and stand in front of everyone." So he got up and stood there.
9 Then Jesus said to them, "I ask you, which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy it?"
10 He looked around at them all, and then said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He did so, and his hand was completely restored. 11 But they were furious and began to discuss with one another what they might do to Jesus.
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Amyfa
I have never been a JW never going to be one but I have a friend who is one. The question I ask him but never get an answer for is
Show me in the bible where it says I CAN'T celebrate Christmas or Birthdays.
So maybe you can show me in the bible where it says these things. Not just a watchtower take on why they say you can't celebrate them. -
sacolton
"pagan festival still practised with Full rituals and basically unchanged in that practise for 100's of years" What "full ritual" is "basically unchanged in practise"? Elaborate.
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insearchoftruth
6 On another Sabbath he went into the synagogue and was teaching, and a man was there whose right hand was shriveled. 7 The Pharisees and the teachers of the law were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal on the Sabbath. 8 But Jesus knew what they were thinking and said to the man with the shriveled hand, "Get up and stand in front of everyone." So he got up and stood there.
9 Then Jesus said to them, "I ask you, which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy it?"
10 He looked around at them all, and then said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He did so, and his hand was completely restored. 11 But they were furious and began to discuss with one another what they might do to Jesus.
Not meaning to add another topic, but Luke 6, quoted above, is a story where a mosiac law was violated to save a life....where does that differ from getting a blood transfusion (I guess a transfusion of one of the major components, since most every other part of blood is allowed) to save a life?
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DaCheech
Outlaw was trying to make the point that angels rejoicing in the bible was a celebration/party and my reply was to basically say erm it's just rejoicing. Now on this I will let the reader use there own judgement, I used a dictionary were you get a straight definition rejoicing is exactly what it is rejoicing
Well, I guess as a JW I will not celebrate cristmas, but I will rejoice (on christmas) from now on!