Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe? (page 2)

barry

Dear Reniaa, The type of thinking you have is still WT thinking. There are other organisations that have the same type of thinking eg. My ex wifes Mum was a communist and would consistently say people escaping from the workers paradice were only criminals or sex maniacs escaping to get more sex. Thats just how communists brains are wired.

I am an SDA and they are very devout but they have birthdays and celebrate xmas. Some penticostals dont have xmas but its just the way they have been wired and what the group think is.

I once saw a demonstration on the TV where actors would vow and declare something was black when it was really white in front of a subject and the person would start to question things that would be obvious to anyone on the outside.

barry

May I also mantion the new testamant isnt a book of rules. I dont find in its pages rules on how to baptise. Early christians actually dunked beleivers three times in th ename of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. There is no instructions on not celebrating birthdays either.

In fact the new testament is largly a book of stories and letters from the early church. It is a reaction away from the very legalistic jewish religion.

sacolton

The God I know isn't the God the JW teach.

funkyderek

reniaa:

have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc

Leaving aside the obvious fact that none of these activities is unequivocally condemned in the bible, what a sad state of affairs it is when someone can view such normal activities as wrong in some way. Such arbitrary restrictions do nothing but add to the sum total of human misery. You should be ashamed of yourself for promoting such backwards views.

isaacaustin

I'm a very much a bible follower so any christian faith I look at is measured against it! Take christmas a typical celebration often embraced by ex-JW's why? I can google it and find out for myself its pagan origins quite easily, I can then look at the whole 'Golden calf' biblical story where God punishes israelites for trying to put egyptian practices in line with there belief in God, if its ok to celebrate christmas despite it's origins then God was wrong to punish israelites for the same reason? you see my quandary?

Can we diferentiate between what is purely a JW issue and what is seen as wrong biblically?

And if we disagree with a principle clearly condemed in the bible then surely we should admit it?

The golden calf- the actual bowing down and worshipping of an image. Pretty black and white.

The observance of a day- Paul was pretty clear in Romans chapter 14.

	Rom 14:4		Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
	Rom 14:5		One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
	Rom 14:6		He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
	Rom 14:7		For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
	Rom 14:8		For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
	Rom 14:9		For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
	Rom 14:10		But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

The WT on one hand gives a very balanced viewpoint in saying that we do not need to explore and uncover the origin of everything and remove all traces of paganism from our lives- it is what it means now, today to people. Good advice! They apply this to anniversaries/wedings/wedding rings and a host of other things. They have another set of standards they apply to activites they want their members to refrain from such as birthdays, holidays, etc...which again, the origin is unknow and obsolete to the average person. Why the difference? To create a wall, a separation between their members and the outsiders so that the JW will not feel comfortable around 'worldy persons'....building the 'where else is there to go' concept.

Reniaa you sure do like to ask questions you already know the answer to don;t you you? hmm

carla

If you are so concerned with something that may have had pagan origins why are you involved in any way with the jw's? have you researched their pagan origins?

You prefer to remain ignorant and judgemental because it is easier to have a group of men tell you what to believe than do the slightest bit of homework yourself. That is cowardice and just plain laziness.

passwordprotected

@isaacaustin - Fantastic reply.

Mary

Many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the JW's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc. There are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a JW so in my confusion I ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the JW's?

This is typical JW thinking at its best. As Funkyderek so aptly stated: there is nothing wrong with these things in themselves and only the warped view of the Watchtower world would lead you to such a conclusion. I can't speak for everyone on here, but the reason the majority of people leave the Organization is because after really "examining the scriptures" to see if their doctrines stand up to muster, they realize that many of the doctrines are built on sand and are nothing more than written word of the people who run the religion, not God.

There is nothing in the bible that indicates that one cannot celebrate Christmas, gamble or embrace politics, celebrate birthdays, accept a blood transfusion, clink their glasses at a wedding or preach house to house. These are all manmade doctrines.

Hundreds of millions of Christians all over the world 'still follow the bible' and lead moral lives. Just because you're not a Jehovah's Witness does not mean you automatically stop 'following the bible', so please do not try and assert that just because someone leaves "the truth" that they no longer follow the bible.

lovelylil

I am a follower of Christ or a Christian. I do not take the bible as a rule book anymore like the Witnesses do. But I do adhere to the principles Jesus taught such as "do uno others" and "have love among yourselves". I believe in many ways that people play the Bible like a fiddle to prove their own personal view. There are always others ways to look at things;

Take Christmas for instance. You may see it as pagan because at one time thousands of years ago, pagans celebrated a certain festival. But what you may not know is that christians base Christmas not on the celebration of Saturnalia, but on the Festival of Lights that the Jews observed. The lighting of the xmas tree reminds us that Christ is the "light of the world". Also the whole point of the earlier church making Christmas on december 25th was to "christianize" that day and to confiscate it from the pagans so that new Christians would not feel pressured to continue to observe the pagan festival, but could give that day to Christ and remembrance of his birth. In my home, we focus on Christ during xmas and not Santa Clause.

To many people though, Christmas is merely a secular holiday and that is fine too. I will not judge anyone who observes this day or decides not too. Because the bible says "whatever YOU do, do it unto the Lord". What we do and don't do is entirely up to us and our own personal conciences.

As far as the God Jehovah of the Watchtower. After much reading of the actual bible itself, I have come to realize that he only exists in the sick twisted mind of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society! Peace, Lilly

ex-nj-jw

police will tell you one time of the year they dread is christmas more deaths happen then than any other time from overindulgence, hospitals dread it for similar reasons,

Uh, I've been a nurse for over 20 years and the police and the ER don't say this about christmas. They do say it about a full moon, 4th of July, St. Patricks Day and New Years. Christmas is usuall pretty damn slow.

nj

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

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