Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa 407 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  isaacaustin

  i'm sorry isaacaustin I guess I wasn't really clear on the point I was trying to make which was that the rituals of these forgotten pagan festivals have a great a hold on us. And that people couldn't conceive of not doing them or changing the date they observe jesus's birthday on, people find change hard.

  I don't want to keep banging on about christmas it's taken what I really wanted to discuss right off topic and considering the replies i've had it's an old well discussed topic.

  I appologise to those that feel I have not answered or addressed their questions enough but I really want to keep this thread more on topic now and only address people staying within the topic of "If it's Just the Jw's they've left and not the God of the bible?" although i think we may have pretty muched covered it .

  Which is it? Were you trying to point out "the rituals of these forgotten pagan festivals have a great a hold on us. And that people couldn't conceive of not doing them or changing the date they observe jesus's birthday on, people find change hard." OR were you addressing ""If it's Just the Jw's they've left and not the God of the bible?"

  They are two different issues entirely. I personally just left the JW's. The God of the Bible is so different, almost opposite from the god of the WT.
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  OUTLAW

  Reniaa..We keep banging on Christmas,because you opened it up for debate..It`s in your first post,on your own thread!!..Now it`s off topic?..I don`t think so!..Bait and Switch does`nt work here.....Don`t start a thread that specifically includes the subject of Christmas and then tell us it`s off topic!!..That is unacceptable!.....There are other people here,that want you to answer my questions also..Read your Own thread!!...............Once again I ask you..Please answer the Questions in my first post to you!!!....................OUTLAW
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  Mary

  Reniaa said: I don't want to keep banging on about christmas it's taken what I really wanted to discuss right off topic and considering the replies i've had it's an old well discussed topic...........I appologise to those that feel I have not answered or addressed their questions enough but I really want to keep this thread more on topic now and only address people staying within the topic of "If it's Just the Jw's they've left and not the God of the bible?" although i think we may have pretty muched covered it .

  Translation: I have no logical or biblical answer for my assertions, so I am refusing to answer the questions posed to me, simply because I have no answer.

  LOL!! Better luck next time Reniaa......
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  ex-nj-jw

  She'll be back around the time for the next big holiday to let us all know what a bunch of heathens we are

  nj
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  Satanus

  'christians can do anything as long as it is in christs name, the principles against new year christmas and such-like isn't so much that they are festivals but what they are in practise.'
  
  Seems to me, if a christian can do anything as long as it's in jesus name, then putting jesus' name into the saturnalia is exactly what the catholic church should have done. CHRISTtmas. In jesus' name is the point. It's the magic christian formula. In the name of jesus, you could even change eggs into cheese. Afterall, jesus changed water into wine.
  
  S
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  LisaAnn

  Hi Renniaa,

  I believe you are an honest person and would tell the truth. Could you please answer me this question: Does your congregation consider you an active publisher?

  Thanks.
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  independent_tre

  i'm sorry isaacaustin I guess I wasn't really clear on the point I was trying to make which was that the rituals of these forgotten pagan festivals have a great a hold on us. And that people couldn't conceive of not doing them or changing the date they observe jesus's birthday on, people find change hard.

  I don't want to keep banging on about christmas it's taken what I really wanted to discuss right off topic and considering the replies i've had it's an old well discussed topic.

  I appologise to those that feel I have not answered or addressed their questions enough but I really want to keep this thread more on topic now and only address people staying within the topic of "If it's Just the Jw's they've left and not the God of the bible?" although i think we may have pretty muched covered it .

  To be fair to you Reniaa, I will answer your original question if that honestly was your reason for bringing this up. I left the JW's, not the Bible. As a matter of fact I feel that the bible has more meaning to me than at anytime I've ever been a dub.

  I did not leave for sex - the only person I'm gettin' it on with is my hubby.

  I did not leave to celebrate holidays - so many of them are Hallmark-money-making holidays anyway, but I do believe it is my choice and not condemned by the Bible.

  I did not leave to gamble - I can find many more satisfying ways of flushing my money down the toilet.

  I did not leave to vote - I still retain a healthy skepticism of politics and politicians.

  I left because I found out it was not the truth. A deep study of the bible without the WT narrative will uncover that. I left because of all the extrascriptural requirements that did not make sense. I left because I realized that Jehovah's Witnesses are not a 'special people'; they are like every other group of people on this earth, there is good and bad in all.

  Most of all - I left because I wanted to be FREE! That is my hope for you, Reniaa.

  Take care.

  Independent Tre
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  reniaa

  hi lisaAnn

  Hi Renniaa,

  I believe you are an honest person and would tell the truth. Could you please answer me this question: Does your congregation consider you an active publisher?

  Thanks

  I have nothing to lose by being honest, I am atm still working on going back I am having an on/off study with a view to that because its been over 10 years since I stopped going to meetings. I did get to the memorial this year though, I'm not sure I would ever qualify as a publisher I have a severely disabled son and am his fulltime carer, I am in the middle of changing him from tegretol to kepra epilepsy drugs which is causing side effect issues among other things so study is off atm but I'm hoping to restart soon, I don't get out much so even meetings would be difficult. This debate forum has really helped me explore many issues I had. Many on here accuse me of being an active witness lol even an elders wife on occasion! maybe they just can't conceive that someone is just boringly normal and exactly what they say they are.

  reniaa
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  reniaa

  HI Outlaw, lets put this to rest shall we? here is your first post...

  Reniaa..One of the worst things most JW`s do.Is paint everyone who disagree`s with them,with the same brush..You`ve done the same in your first post on this thread.....You assume everyone who doesn`t agree with the JW`s,does not believe in the bible.....Lets go with "Christmas" as an example.....JW`s don`t believe in Christmas..Why?..Because the WBT$ says so!Not because they have read they`re bible..If a JW would actually read they`re bible without the WBT$ Bullsh*t interpretation.They would learn who were actually the first,to Celebrate the Birth of Jesus.....The Bible says,when Jesus was born.The angel`s "Rejoiced"..If you have a Thesaurus,look up the word Rejoice..Your Thesaurus will show you,another word for Rejoice,is Celebrate.....The "Angels" were the very first,to Celebrate the Birth of Jesus..Clearly it`s not a pagan celebration.God`s own "Angels"were the first to do it..That makes the WBT$ "LIARS"in claiming it is a Pagan celebration..What proves that the WBT$ are Liar`s?..The Bible!!....Would you rather follow the example of the Angels in the Bible and celebrate the Birth of Jesus?..Or..A multi Billion dollar Publishing Company(WBT$) that is caught in lie`s on a regular basis and tells it`s followers not to celebrate the Birth of Jesus?....................I would like a response to my post..Thanks........................ ...OUTLAW

  I've answered the rejoice part in this post here for the 3rd time

  Outlaw was trying to make the point that angels rejoicing in the bible was a celebration/party and my reply was to basically say erm it's just rejoicing. Now on this I will let the reader use there own judgement, I used a dictionary were you get a straight definition rejoicing is exactly what it is rejoicing, Outlaw had to use a thesaurus to support his view through synonyms because first he's changing rejoice to celebrate then using the fact you have 2 meanings to celebrate one is to rejoice the other is to have a party. On this premise I can pretty much get anything to mean anything, I can get from circle to square using only synonyms. lol I will leave it you you guys to decide which of us is twisting meanings to their own ends :)

  now you next question is....

  Would you rather follow the example of the Angels in the Bible and celebrate the Birth of Jesus?..Or..A multi Billion dollar Publishing Company(WBT$) that is caught in lie`s on a regular basis and tells it`s followers not to celebrate the Birth of Jesus?

  How can I answer this question unless i agree with it? this is a logical fallacy because the question only applies to me if i accept the statement I have highlighted that you make in the first part of the question as right and as you know from my posts I do not accept that rejoice and happiness at the birth of jesus birth by angels a one off event can suddenly become toutamount to celebration the way you apply it! using synonyn trickery and a word that in it's usage can cover praise and rejoicing of a one off event to observing an event in a yearly fashion with all it's rituals. Words having multiple meanings is a factor of any language and context is how we judge that meaning,

  Outlaw you are a naughty puppy for trying word and question trickery like this :( and i answer this now fully so you can't say i haven't addressed you first post anymore Outlaw

  Reniaa
• 

  reniaa

  To be fair to you Reniaa, I will answer your original question if that honestly was your reason for bringing this up. I left the JW's, not the Bible. As a matter of fact I feel that the bible has more meaning to me than at anytime I've ever been a dub.

  I did not leave for sex - the only person I'm gettin' it on with is my hubby.

  I did not leave to celebrate holidays - so many of them are Hallmark-money-making holidays anyway, but I do believe it is my choice and not condemned by the Bible.

  I did not leave to gamble - I can find many more satisfying ways of flushing my money down the toilet.

  I did not leave to vote - I still retain a healthy skepticism of politics and politicians.

  I left because I found out it was not the truth. A deep study of the bible without the WT narrative will uncover that. I left because of all the extrascriptural requirements that did not make sense. I left because I realized that Jehovah's Witnesses are not a 'special people'; they are like every other group of people on this earth, there is good and bad in all.

  Most of all - I left because I wanted to be FREE! That is my hope for you, Reniaa.

  Take care.

  Independent Tre

  hi tre, your points make good sense although i think some are covered by bible principle even though not mentioned specifically, Athough something in what you say reminded me of a scripture this whole discussion had brought to my mind In romans 2

  12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
  

  The Jews and the Law

  17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." [b]

  25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the [c] written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

  28 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

  The bit I highlighted doesn't it allow that people can naturally do things in the bible way by virtue of their consciences even if not believers in the bible? that we are made with an ability to do good etc?