Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa 407 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Mary

  Reniaa, Using your logic about reverting back to pagan roots then counteracts why a JW can go on a honeymoon, wear a wedding band and the like, the PO, sorry CBOE of the congo where my wife is attending occasionally said that these things are ok because the meaning is now beyond the pagan origin, so which way is it

  Your right if we apply it too strictly how far down the road do we go? in fact jesus's condemnation of jews was on similar lines, they squeezed the gnat out of every situation. but if you say a wedding ring has lost it's original meaning so do you then say it's gotta be ok to celebrate christmas, new year etc because we allowed the ring? .

  Yes, Jesus condemned the Jewish leaders for straining the gnat on several issues. Yet the exact same situation is commonplace in the Organization, but you somehow refuse to see it. If the wedding ring has "lost it's original meaning", why don't you apply the exact same logic to celebrating Christmas? No one today equates celebrating Xmas with Saturnalia. It's lost it's original meaning. As for the lame excuse that Jesus wasn't born on December 25th, so what? My sister's wedding anniversary is on November 1st. Last year, we took them out to celebrate on October 31st. Did anyone care that we were celebrating their wedding anniversary on (gasp!) Hallowe'en? Did anyone accuse us of being "pagan" because we were celebrating a joyous event on a pagan holiday? No they did not. In fact, I even called Bethel to see if there was anything wrong with celebrating a wedding anniversary on Hallowe'en. I was told 'no' there wasn't. Yet they make this huge deal out of the fact that people today celebrate Jesus' birth on a day that the Roman's had a holiday. Gee, that's not a double standard is it?

  when they promote over-eating, over-drinking, greed etc. basically you are saying the greater sin is ok because we allow the lesser? jesus came across that issue a lot

  Oh please. You ever been to a Witness wedding? They could give the average pagan a run for their money when it comes to over-eating, over-drinking and greed.
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  isaacaustin

  hey there isaacaustin, you make a good example but if (and i think you can apply this to more than christmas) you allow for the original house to be gangmember one and it was taken over by christians if they then go on to do all the things in the house that the gangmember did doesn't that still make them wrong?

  That is the point Reniaa. It depends on what you are doing. Just as one can hold a birthday celebration and not behead someone...one observing Christmas is doing just that- Christmas, not Saturnalia.
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  reniaa

  hi civicsi00

  Everyone here has already made some good points, so I'm not going to go into detail.

  As far as myself, I no longer believe in the JW's. This does NOT mean that I am free to commit all the sins I want. In fact, as I left, I felt an even STRONGER conviction to live my life in the footsteps of Jesus Christ. I take all of the holidays very seriously, and as of now I have only celebrated one type of celebration. I know now that I am free in Jesus Christ, and I wish all could be the same. I see that the world is a bad place to live in, but it's not like we can just pick up our stuff and move to another planet. We must live according to Christ and for Christ.

  Reniaa, in reviewing some of your posts, you defend the JW's strongly because you feel that they are the only religion that "offers" some type of hope or "relief" in this mad world. I respect your opinion, but I know for myself that being raised in that environment can and does create a negative and short-sighted view of life . To top it off, any religion that tells you what to think and feel (or be excommunicated) cannot be the true religion in any sense. The JW's are not what Jesus had in mind when he showed his disciples how to be more perfect like their Father in heaven.

  Your right on the face of it I defend the witnesses but not blindly, I do agree in that I think witnesses are not quite what jesus had in mind but then show me any faith that does? and in fact christianity is becoming an alien thing today, indepth discussions on whether to celebrate festivals are minor when simple wrongdoings like, sex/fornication, adultery etc are excepted by society as a whole and we as christians are the odd ones out now.

  When I left the Jw's everything was so different, and I'll admit in my 20's the freedom of person i got was delightful but as I get older and have kids that are now my responsibilty I count the cost and see the merit of the stricter code. Bible principle gives me a marker to work too. I am not as good as some of those that although left Jw's still kept to bible principles so maybe this discusion was me asking myself the question as much as those on the forum :)
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  isaacaustin

  Your right if we apply it too strictly how far down the road do we go? in fact jesus's condemnation of jews was on similar lines, they squeezed the gnat out of every situation. but if you say a wedding ring has lost it's original meaning so do you then say it's gotta be ok to celebrate christmas, new year etc because we allowed the ring? when they promote over-eating, over-drinking, greed etc

  basically you are saying the greater sin is ok because we allow the lesser? jesus came across that issue a lot

  Reniaa,

  The WT has arbitrarily picked and chosen what is ok and what is not, using one set of logic for things commonplace such as wedding rigns and anniversaires and intentionally used their stringent stand on activities that the exclusion from effects children.

  Birthdays out. Why? It isolates kids at school from other kids. That child doesn't fit in with 'worldy' children right from the get-go. Where else is there to go??

  Anniversaries ok. Why? They are generally a family affair or with close friends. What friends? Other JWs.....The office place generally takes fellow employees out for what? Their birthday. Not so with anniversaries.

  Regarding your comment that Christmas promotes overeating,greed, etc...that is not true. Christmas does not...some businesses do...some people do. Hunting rifles have a good purpose and a wrong purpose. Again Reniaa...it is how it is done...
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  reniaa

  I don't want to get to mired in a discussion of festival celebrating and to list point by point why something is wrong invites personal subjective judgement, so on christmas I will ask a question which illustrates what I see wrong with it,

  Which would you class as more important celebrating christmas or observing the passover?

  one is biblical and sanctioned by jesus, the other is added later and unbiblical in origin and heavily edited to for greater audience appreciation. (wrong date, wise kings visiting house years later etc)

  I'm using passover only as an example as something to be observed directly commanded biblically, but which would average christians class as having more meaning christmas or passover?

  On the face of it christmas is just a fussy family fun holiday but if I don't choose to celebrate it or let my children do so, I am made to feel like an evil pariah, an outcast, someone unnatural, special provisions have to be put in place in school and these points in themselves speaks more of people's reaction to something they worship not to just a holiday
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  isaacaustin

  I can not answer for the average person. In Passover i am assuming you are speaking of partaking of the body of Christ? I would consider this to be of higher importance. But again, this is invalid logic. You are asking which is more important. That in no way makes the other one wrong. The fact that it was not sanctioned by Jesus and was added by man again is irrelevant. You may want to review the book of Esther and observe that the Jews made their own day called Purim to celebrate Israel''s being spared. Christmas, if observed with the right mindset also celebrates and gives glory to a greater deliverance.
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  DaCheech

  non comment on my comment?
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  Mary

  don't want to get to mired in a discussion of festival celebrating

  Why not? You're the one who brought the subject up.

  and to list point by point why something is wrong invites personal subjective judgement

  Personal subjective judgement? If something is scripturally and biblically wrong, it shouldn't be too difficult to prove from the scriptures that it's wrong. Listing it 'point by point' and then giving the scriptural reason as to why the practice is wrong, should be easy. And if you can't prove it using the scriptures, then isn't that "personal subjective judgement"? Isn't that exactly what the Governing Body members are doing by making the celebration of Christmas a disfellowshipping offense? Since there is nothing in the scriptures that forbid the celebration, aren't they inserting their own personal opinion onto 6.5 million Witnesses?

  so on christmas I will ask a question which illustrates what I see wrong with it: Which would you class as more important celebrating christmas or observing the passover? one is biblical and sanctioned by jesus, the other is added later and unbiblical in origin and heavily edited to for greater audience appreciation. (wrong date, wise kings visiting house years later etc)

  Red herring. Celebrating the Passover has absolutely nothing to do with celebrating Christmas. These are two completely different subjects. The subject is not 'which is more important', but rather, is there any scriptural reference that forbids the celebration of Christmas. There isn't.

  I'm using passover only as an example as something to be observed directly commanded biblically, but which would average christians class as having more meaning christmas or passover?

  For the purpose of this particular discussion, it makes no difference. Can you please show us a scripture that indicates that we cannot celebrate Christmas?
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  MadGiant

  Sorry, I am not a JW’s or ExJWs’s.

  Right at this moment I do not believe in the bible, god, easter bunny, santa claus, tooth fairly, vampires, mythical creatures, mystical creatures period.

  Take care,

  Ismael
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  Finally-Free

  Right at this moment I do not believe in the bible, god, easter bunny, santa claus, tooth fairly, vampires, mythical creatures, mystical creatures period.

  I believe in the Easter Bunny. I know for a fact he exists, because I can buy his coloured eggs at Zellers every year! YUM!

  W