Reniaa..One of the worst things most JW`s do.Is paint everyone who disagree`s with them,with the same brush..You`ve done the same in your first post on this thread.....You assume everyone who doesn`t agree with the JW`s,does not believe in the bible.....Lets go with "Christmas" as an example.....JW`s don`t believe in Christmas..Why?..Because the WBT$ says so!Not because they have read they`re bible..If a JW would actually read they`re bible without the WBT$ Bullsh*t interpretation.They would learn who were actually the first,to Celebrate the Birth of Jesus.....The Bible says,when Jesus was born.The angel`s "Rejoiced"..If you have a Thesaurus,look up the word Rejoice..Your Thesaurus will show you,another word for Rejoice,is Celebrate.....The "Angels" were the very first,to Celebrate the Birth of Jesus..Clearly it`s not a pagan celebration.God`s own "Angels"were the first to do it..That makes the WBT$ "LIARS"in claiming it is a Pagan celebration..What proves that the WBT$ are Liar`s?..The Bible!!....Would you rather follow the example of the Angels in the Bible and celebrate the Birth of Jesus?..Or..A multi Billion dollar Publishing Company(WBT$) that is caught in lie`s on a regular basis and tells it`s followers not to celebrate the Birth of Jesus?....................I would like a response to my post..Thanks........................
...OUTLAW
Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?
by reniaa 407 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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OUTLAW
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shamus100
Hi Reinna,
I am fairly typical of a dub that left. Yes, I questioned weather there was a god. I did research it... and felt and still feel confortable knowing that there is none. What I find hard to believe that there are so few christians in the world and so many buddists, muslims, etc. Really, christians are small potatoes. Just because we grew up in a christian society does not mean that it's right.
About two years later, I got rid of all religious material in my home. All bibles, all JW garbage... everything. Dropped it off at the local windowless kingdumb hall. It was liberating knowing that god had no control over my life, and I hadn't gone off the deep-end. I wasn't a drunk - a prostitute - a drug addict. I was just like everyone else.
Now I dont' hate religion. I hate people that push they're religion on me - especially people that know better. People who used to be dubs and post gloom and doom on this board I have no patience for. They should know better than try that crap with a whole lot of people that used to be in a cult.
Some people need religion. And that's okay. And some people believe in religion. And that's okay. We're all different, and we need to be tolerant of each other. Just don't push religion or your beliefs on other people.
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reniaa
Reniaa,
Using your logic about reverting back to pagan roots then counteracts why a JW can go on a honeymoon, wear a wedding band and the like, the PO, sorry CBOE of the congo where my wife is attending occasionally said that these things are ok because the meaning is now beyond the pagan origin, so which way is it??
ISOT
Your right if we apply it too strictly how far down the road do we go? in fact jesus's condemnation of jews was on similar lines, they squeezed the gnat out of every situation. but if you say a wedding ring has lost it's original meaning so do you then say it's gotta be ok to celebrate christmas, new year etc because we allowed the ring? when they promote over-eating, over-drinking, greed etc
basically you are saying the greater sin is ok because we allow the lesser? jesus came across that issue a lot.
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reniaa
A festival called Christmas came on the scene to REPLACE a pagan festival called Saturnalia. I am sure you know that. A battle between evil and good. Who won out? Do you know anyone today who celebrates Saturnalia? I do not. Your illustration of tangible property to a matter that Paul in Romans describes as up to one's conscience simply is a very poor illustration. It is comparing apples and oranges. A better example may be...if a gangmember is to construct a building and use it to conduct his business...and the building is later sold...(legal technicalities aside here as I am not a lawyer familiar with such)....would the new owner be guilty of being a gangbanger...since he is in a place that had its origin or beginning as such? Or would his use of the building be the determining factor of whether he is committing a wrong? isaacaustin
hey there isaacaustin, you make a good example but if (and i think you can apply this to more than christmas) you allow for the original house to be gangmember one and it was taken over by christians if they then go on to do all the things in the house that the gangmember did doesn't that still make them wrong?
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Finally-Free
Every christian religion, including jws, twists the bible to support its own ideas. The bible can be used to approve or condemn just about anything. The bible can be used to promote love. It can also be used to promote fornication, incest, polygamy, murder, genocide, racism, drunkenness, gluttony, and even the purchase of a bride with a predetermined amount of human foreskins.
The world would be better off adopting the writings of Dr. Seuss as sacred scripture.
W
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reniaa
The Bible provides some wonderful guidance, when read as a novel, in context, but as the other posters have stated, by jumping around, one can make it say and support everything that one would want it to support.......
Read the Bible for what it is, what gets me is when a religious organization continues to create its own interpretations of what the good book is supposed to be stating, continually changes these interpretations, and then will admonish the followers who either want to cling to the old beliefs or do not want to accept each and every doctrine/policy/rule.
The OT God was one of anger and was quite vengeful, the the God of the New Testament is truly a God of forgiveness. We are all sinners, we all fall short of the Glory of God, but it is through our faith that we are saved....it is an undeserved GIFT, not at all related to works.
insearchoftruth
I can see what you mean because you take the third line of choice that people have that is believe in jesus and the bible but don't take the bible too literally or I could apply one of the Jw's favourite scriptures from it to your last words...
24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
so is faith alone enough if we can no longer trust people's usage of the bible?
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lovelylil
reneia,
What exactly are you saying that Christians do on Christmas that is the same thing that pagans did on Saturnalia? Do you even know how and why pagans celebrated Saturnalia?
Lilly
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civicsi00
Everyone here has already made some good points, so I'm not going to go into detail.
As far as myself, I no longer believe in the JW's. This does NOT mean that I am free to commit all the sins I want. In fact, as I left, I felt an even STRONGER conviction to live my life in the footsteps of Jesus Christ. I take all of the holidays very seriously, and as of now I have only celebrated one type of celebration. I know now that I am free in Jesus Christ, and I wish all could be the same. I see that the world is a bad place to live in, but it's not like we can just pick up our stuff and move to another planet. We must live according to Christ and for Christ.
Reniaa, in reviewing some of your posts, you defend the JW's strongly because you feel that they are the only religion that "offers" some type of hope or "relief" in this mad world. I respect your opinion, but I know for myself that being raised in that environment can and does create a negative and short-sighted view of life. To top it off, any religion that tells you what to think and feel (or be excommunicated) cannot be the true religion in any sense. The JW's are not what Jesus had in mind when he showed his disciples how to be more perfect like their Father in heaven.
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reniaa
Even for those that cling to the Bible, they recognize that it can be used to say anything.
The only way that can be accomplished is by playing Bible hopscotch. When taken in context, not only of that particular portion, but also of the character of God and the purpose of the Bible, it is quite clear that some things are wrong. However, many 'false teachers' very much like to take things out of context to support a particular viewpoint of theirs, and then various people who don't believe in the Bible point to them and say just what you said.
Sex, with someone other than your wife, is wrong. Reinna made it quite clear that not only is it wrong Biblically, but also in relation to society and the lives of those around you. I, too, have come to the same conclusion about sex. I first didn't engage in such a willful activity because God said "No", but as I began to question why God tells me to not do certain things, through His Word, I have gained an understanding that I'm not to do them because they are harmful, not only to myself, but to those around me. As for the rest of the points (Christmas, gambling, voting, etc...), Romans 14, as has been quoted several times already is very true. Also, there is a verse (I think it's in the last 4 verses of 1 Cor 10) where Paul asks, "Why am I evil spoken of for that which I give thanks?".
As another poster said, IT is a personal relationship with Christ and just like any true relationship, we do things not because we're supposed to, but because we want to and because we want to make our counterpart in that relationship happy.
slappy
you make good thoughtful point oneI agree with slappy
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sacolton
Honestly, when it gets right down to it ... people make the celebration for what it is - not the other way around. If a bad person wants to partake in a festival and does something evil - isn't the blame on that individual and not the festival? For example, birthdays ... okay, so we have two examples of two bad people who did a bad thing on their birthday ... why can't we just blame them and not the celebration of birthdays? Why must the JWs throw the baby out with the bath water? I've been to several birthdays since leaving the JW and I must report that none of them included any beheadings. I'll tell you what ... if I ever do attend a birthday and someone gets beheaded - that will be the last time I'll go to their birthday party! I promise!