by reniaa 407 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
hey sirona,
Been a while I see you still love me.
People have to take me at my word but I can't see what difference it makes even if i was the devil in disguise to the debates. People choose to take part or not and hopefully get some thought provoking points it's no biggy.
Reniaa
repeat thread
Hi there Reniaa, you said:
but I still think it's the best that is on offer doctrinely
If that's the case, then why not forgo organized religion as a whole?
That's not intended to be disrespectful, but I personally don't see the point in organized religion, especially when it is so flawed.
I am a Christian I have never idolized a cross I dont know any Christians that do either.
I think it's just something the watchtower tell you will do.
I have seen tie pins, rings and other jewlery for sale with the watchtower on, does that mean all JW's idolize the watchtower?
hi isaacaustin
It was a good discussion, I'm sorry I didn't address all your points maybe on a future thread :)
limited time was more my issue
Hey doomvoyager I could almost wish you ment that seriously :P
being a lone voice has it's downside but take comfort that you made me feel welcome :) and not jumped on the bandwagon of bullying the odd one out that some less savoury types do!
Reniaa
Hi there Reniaa, you said:
but I still think it's the best that is on offer doctrinelyIf that's the case, then why not forgo organized religion as a whole?
That's not intended to be disrespectful, but I personally don't see the point in organized religion, especially when it is so flawed.
I'm just hedging my bets again the bible sets the president for organised faith in the NT, anyway its not like i'm not flawed myself how do I know i'm reasoning rightly, i've just had 16 pages of people disagreeing with me so you know just picking a faith that suits us and our morality thats all any of us can do. its a bit chicken and egg.
reniaa
I am a Christian I have never idolized a cross I dont know any Christians that do either.
I think it's just something the watchtower tell you will do.
I have seen tie pins, rings and other jewlery for sale with the watchtower on, does that mean all JW's idolize the watchtower?
hi amyfa
I only know this through this site that these things existed, I never saw them on a witness when I was an active one it has been 10 years, if they do wear them i'm surprised there hasn't been a watchtower discouraging it?
to be honest the jewelry is wrong for both Jw's and christians if they wear them but the crosses in/on the churches and at the alters is the worst by bible standards in my opinion.
reniaa
Renaii said:
I hate that I'm picking the best of a bad bunch
It is sad when a person has to resort to this reasoning.
When one does not agree with the WTS dogma wholeheartedly, as in no college or shunning, one is considered weak at best, disobedient at worst, and if not "wholesouled," what is the point anyway? According to WT doctrine, if you don't believe every utterance from the Governing Body, whether from the Bible or not, or even if they change the "light" back and forth, you are not going to survive the big A.
Sounds like the person who gets baptised in many religions, "Just in case."
I generally feel that JW's are moral people. No fault there. They just insist that they are right and others are
wrong. I cannot accept that.Don't take this the wrong way but don't many faiths take this line, in fact evolutionists can be like this too,
Oh, you got me there on semantics. I should have said:
They just insist that they are right and others are
wrong. I cannot accept that THEY ARE RIGHT. Others do that, true.
This is one thing I hate about my discussion style on a chat site. You would have
heard the inflection and known what I meant.
... you've changing the goal posts a little, we are now talking 'fruitage' if we are talking the consequences of doctrines and your right JWs have made many mistakes when they go beyond the bible
How is that a change in the "goal posts" ? We are asked, IS IT THE JW'S (OR THE
GOD OF THE BIBLE) YOU NO LONGER BELIEVE? You are freely admitting they went
beyond the Bible: "...your right JWs have made many mistakes when they go beyond the
bible they are on dangerous ground as is any christian faith..."
I am demonstrating that if Reniaa thinks the JW's are right and the rest of the Bible followers
are wrong, that it can be looked at in other ways. JW's are no more right than those other
Christian religions. I am not talking about consequences. I do not mention the consequences
of shunning or celebrating Christmas, I don't mention the consequences of going to college or
swimming at the YMCA, I don't mention the consequences of using aluminum. I simply use
these examples to show you that WTS is not always "RIGHT" and is hypocritical and changes
it's mind and insists on it's doctrines as the only way.
I am demonstrating that a person can accept the Bible and do things that another person
(such as yourself) finds objectionable to your standards that you got from reading the Bible
(well, the Bible and Watchtower- but I digress- We'll assume you came up with all your beliefs
from deep Bible research).
If you want me to defend the Catholic Church or any witch-burning group, you have the wrong
man. Attacking the other religion is a JW tactic. Stick to the JW's and the Bible. We can
attack the JW's the same way. I did not take it to a different goal post, you did. Once the
JW's insisted on all the members seeing the scriptures their way on BLOOD, all the innocent
members who died who might have been saved- OH HOW AWEFUL. They were sent to their
death for a misunderstanding of the Bible. It's such a crime of WTS, just like sending the
members to war. Alright? Back to your response.
Is WT the best at sticking to the scriptures? It's a personal opinion. I am going to say NO.
You are going to say YES. Could it be that you have got to be in an organized religion to feel
a sense of belonging? I ask because, a person who rejects some of the doctrines of the churches
and rejects some of the doctrines of the JW's still feels the need to belong to one or the other.
WHY? Why not learn how (this is not my view, just my CHRISTIAN BIBLE BELIEVER ANSWER)
you can follow the Christ without either? If you know what is right in your heart, why turn in field
service to the JW's? Why push their literature? Carry your Bible and do your own work? There's
nothing wrong with using your time at a soup kitchen or at a shelter for battered women or with your
going around spreading the good news from the Bible without the lies of WTS.
I am not a Catholic nor a Christian of any organized religion. I will say this, though. I like any
faith whatsoever that doesn't insist that I must join it or else they look down on me. So I like
Catholics or Methodists or Fundamentalists or Atheists that are not so militant. I have met a few
JW's who are not so militant, but the group calls them weak. NO, I don't like the group. Some of
the individuals are okay, though. Same for any religion, but the group has less pressure on the
members if the group is not a mind-control cult.
I say that all, because many Catholics use birth control and object to sending their kids to war.
Same with Episcopalians or Jews or Hindus or Muslims. Their organization doesn't kick them
out because they differ somewhat with the organization on some major and minor issues. I
can't see how they want to stay if they differ too much, but that's their call. The JW's, though-
they don't allow you to differ. YOU DIFFER. Why bother? Do your own thing. If you cannot
find a church that's a good fit, that's okay. Start your own, or just worship your way without a
church or a group.
So by being a JW i'm saved on both counts hedging my bets so to speak
That's such a waste of life. Just in case the JW's are the religion that God wants you in, you
will stay with hypocritical doctrine-changers. I am done with this argument then. What if God
insists that everyone sees the light and DOES NOT join with such a group? What if He only
accepts pure worship from the heart and not dictated by men? See, there's no point in hedging
your bets. I imagine that the God of Christianity (if I accepted it) would be so forgiving like Jesus
taught people. He would be so forgiving that He would not destroy even the humanitarian Atheist,
let alone a believer. He reads the heart. Does that mean JW's would have a good heart, yes.
But it doesn't mean that they didn't waste their lives in a mind-control cult.
So, I guess it is good enough for you. A life of being a drone in a collective, not having to decide
if pants are okay for worship, knowing that you must preach from their printed literature, knowing that
if you don't give your absolute all to them that the elders will ask where you were or why you didn't
preach last month. Whatever they want as long as you get eternity. If they were right about
eternity, I wouldn't want to be part of it.
A hippy from the 60's that I met in the door to door service for the JW's straightened me out. He
was living in the 90's and had a decent job, but his attitude was still the same. He said something
like this:
"Do you think that Jehovah created people just to bow down to him? Is his ego that big?
Didn't Jesus demonstrate that people are to have enjoyment of life? Is He so cruel that He
will really destroy everyone who doesn't sell WT literature? That's not the message of the Bible."
I will have that lunch anytime we are in the same city. Others think you are just a phony JW who's
defending them. I think you are just wanting to belong. This website and others like it are loaded
with us negative former Christians. It might not be the place for you. Maybe you do need to belong.
If you go back, don't think that had to be the final decision. There are other Christians out there.
If you feel at home with the JW's, at least recognize that it is harmful for some to join. Don't get
involved in the recruiting work. Just slip the tracts in people's hands and count your hours and let
the people be.
JWS and JWR are not throwing people out for their controversial ways. You are welcome on those
sites. I feel that THIS one is the least forgiving on that. But now I opened a new can of worms by
saying that. I wish you well. Good day to you.
Dear Renaii,
Im confused by some of the things you have said.
