by reniaa 407 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I like debating on this forum but it's hard to keep things on topic, by the way you kinda contradicted yourself, you said I never answered any of your questions and then you said i answered them with red herrings,
No contradiction there Reniaa...red herrings are no answer to the question asked...simply a change of topic...
Reniaa.."It`s hard to stay on Topic"..LOL!!..You start a Topic.Then call the Topic,Off Topic!!..Your a Bullsh*t Artist!!.......Have you looked up the word Glory yet?..It`s in the dictionary!..It`s also in the seven Bibles you quoted from but,were afraid to post an entire sentence from..Because..The sentence had the word "Glory" in it!.....Glory means "to Rejoice Proudly".That one word shoots down your Christmas argument..It`s a word from the Bible..The book you like to ignore!!..LOL!!.....You ignored a complete sentence in the Bible,you stopped at the word "praise"..You liked that word better..LOL!!.....You`ve been deceitful,misleading,misdirecting and an out and out Liar.....How can there be any doubt,You Have the Truth?..LOL!!..
...OUTLAW
This is probably a facade to make it look like WT theology is substantiated by someone who is not a JW but has an open mind. Of course this is a facade by Reniaa, she is obviously a Witness in some capacity
Bingo. You know where you see this the most? On Amazon.com. Take a look on there under the comments from the reviewers and check out the ones that gave Crisis of Conscience only one star. You'll find a few nutters on there who claim that they are not Witnesses but curiously they know all the lingo, the scriptures and they use the same circular reasoning that Reniaa has. They do this for the same reason Reniaa has: to make it appear as though they're looking at the religion from an abject point of view, when in reality they demonstrate the mentality of a high control group: When they can't answer a question, they either ignore it, use circular reasoning, or claim that 'well the Witnesses might not have everything 100% right, but they don't teach the trinity or hellfire----therefore where else can I go away to?
Reniaa, you were not able to prove anything on this thread, other than demonstrate that you are incapable of admitting that either you or the WTS can be wrong, even when it has been proven over and over and over again that you both are wrong. I really hope you can use the time spent on here on your Field Service Report. Heck, you could even count Outlaw, issacaustin and me as Return Visits!
looking at the religion from an abject point of view
Freudien slip there, Mary, LOL. Your intent is probably "objective". But you are right. There are no objective JW apologists. Or that is, they must choose to either be JW or be objective. But they can't be both.
Abject fits very nicely, though.
Heck, you could even count Outlaw, issacaustin and me as Return Visits!
LoL Mary are JWs allowed to count time witnessing to 'apostates' as time? LOL Although I don't think calling what Reniaa has done herewitnessing does any justice to the word. The same can be said of the typical JW in Biblical discussion.
If you don't mind, Reniaa, I'd like to go over your protests over my music selections. It's taken me a few days to process your concerns, and I wanted to say this right. First of all, I was taken aback at your claim that there was any reference to the trininty in the sample songs I gave you. Until I realized it was the worship of Jesus that gave you concern.
In "How Great Thou Art", the only reference to Jesus is in the final verse, when the author celebrates the hope that he will be "taken home" with Jesus one day. The author was likely considering these scriptures for his hope:
1Th 4:13 - 18 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Rev 4:9-11 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
As you can see, there's plenty of biblical support for worshipping Jesus. As for your concerns regarding Handel's Messiah, I am still at a loss. It is strictly quoted scripture.
How do you feel if your hubby plays a kingdom melody on Jehovah or you hear one at the kingdom hall would not that be a jarring note for you?
Frankly, it doesn't. The music is reminiscent of Old Disney Jingles and Sousa, so it is becoming increasingly outdated. There's a fair amount of coded language in the songs. But no, the music does not jar. Regular Christians sing of Jehovah too, such as the example below (thoroughly checked for any trinity reference).
Jehovah Jireh, My Provider
Merla WatsonJehovah Jireh, my Provider
His grace is sufficient for me, for me, for me
Jehovah Jireh, my Provider
His grace is sufficient for me
My God shall supply all my needs
According to His riches in glory
He will give His angels charge over me
Jehovah Jireh cares for me, for me, for meJehovah Jireh cares for me© 1974 Tempo Music Publications
I'll tell you a story that you might find in common. In my former church there was a strong emphasis to purge pagan references from existing festivals. For instance, put "Christ back in Christmas", and no bunnies at Easter. I heard many sermons decrying the pagan influences. As a positive counterpart, the church still offers a Christian Horror House at Halloween, a Christian Christmas Play, and the Passion of Christ at Easter, complete with simulated crucifixion.
I've put aside any "pagan" concerns now. In my opinion, pagan is as pagan does. I do find, due to that church's teachings, that Easter especially is ruined for me. I no longer have any family traditions or context to do with bunny rabbits or chocolate. And the passion play is too painful for me to see over and over again. I cry at Jesus' sacrifice, every time. My JW husband, ironically, has preserved any traditions we do have. He is a confirmed chocoholic. He reminds me about that time to pick up something for my granddaughter, and of course I get "a little extra" for him.
So you see, I do understand how a sensibility can completely turn you off from something that is perfectly innocuous. But is that sensibility biblically based, or is it simply habit?
Reniaa -
I'm not sure if this got answered, but could you elaborate as to why the organization does not recognize baptism from other denominations, but they acknowledge marriages. Why the double standard? Why does one have to be re-baptised as a JW, but not re-married?
looking at the religion from an abject point of view
jgnat said: Freudien slip there, Mary, LOL.
D'OH! You're right jgnat.....I meant 'objective'.
Jgnat..There are more Scriptures in the Bible that use the word "Glory" in reference to Jesus?!..Don`t tell Reniaa!!..She doesn`t like that word!!..And..Don`t give her any Music with the name Jesus in it..That will set her off too!............You have to be careful around Reniaa..She dosen`t like whats written in the Bible or music with Jesus in it!!.....It interferes with her Beliefs as a Christian!!..
................OUTLAW
Outlaw- you mean it interferes with her beliefs as on of Jehovah's Witnesses right? Not the same as Christian. :)
