Reniaa said;
"On this for me as I said earlier the jury is out, each of us has to decide if Jw's are materially damaged by using dates in there Doctrines originally and still retaining the 1914 as the time satan has come down to earth, personally I think we will leave dates behind as many current religious groups have, it seems to be a mistake of newish faiths but one they quickly grow out of but.....the world is significantly changed since Jesus first came and the bible is very clear we have to keep prepared for Armegeddon, if men have rushed ahead of the bible and like in thessalonians made themselves foolishly predicting dates Paul forgave them. But I don't think assuming it won't happen on the bases of false predictions is a good idea either."
Yeah, this forum is pretty much populated by people who called the WTS out on their false dates. It's really, really great that the jury is still out for you, most of us - who are Christian - believe that Christ defeated Satan when he ascended to heaven in 33AD. Those of us who aren't Christians probably don't forgive the WTS for insisting their adherents believe and disseminate their chronology.
Jesus repeatedly warned his followers to be on the look out for false prophets and/or those who would mislead them. It kinda isn't an option to say, "Well, we just ran ahead of the Bible a little there, forgive us, at least we kept you feeling all 'urgent' about Christ's return, no?" It also isn't an option to say, "It would be fitting if Jesus fit right in with our dates."
Defence of watchtower society Links
by reniaa 343 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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The reason we have governments who institute law enforcement agencies and courts etc etc is to make sure everyone gets a crack at justice. To circumvent that arrangement by saying that a child needs 2 witnesses before action will be taken is fine within the cult.
However, in order for the cult to act with subjection to the 'superior authorities', as per the Bible's clear direction, they'd have to have in operation a policy where any accusation of child abuse is immediately, without exception, reported to the law enforcement agency. It would appear that, while justice isn't always done, these law enforcement guys are pros and they have trained investigators who have the skills and resources to investigate an accusation and determine whether a crime has been committed. And if they determine, with or without 2 witnesses, that a crime has been committed, then justice can be served on behalf of the injured party.
The WTS policy of only reporting accusations of child abuse if the 'superior authority' requires it opens up the possibility of child abusers being able to re-offend without injunction by the congregation. Adding that to their policy of 'two witnesses', and you have a situation where an entire body of God-fearing people are open to accusation of covering up child abuse. They kind of bring that on themselves, though, don't they? -
Eyes Open
reniaa: "So if using faulty dates is a reason to condemn a religion then I think we would have to condemn all religions".
You mean all religions that set faulty dates, right? And why should we not do that? They were foretold in the bible, right? Matthew 24. -
reniaa
If it doesn't matter whether Christ died on a cross or not, why do JWs make an issue of it? It's the whole 'graven image' issue, isn't it? If so, have a quick glance at the front cover of your study edition WT. Notice that massive watchtower bearing down on the Bible? Have a look at the glass door panels at the Paterson buildings. A watchtower positioned over a Bible.
What about the tie clips, key rings, bookmarks, Bible covers that feature watchtowers or the tetragrammaton? 'Graven images'?I'm looking hard password but I'm failing to see people kneeling in front of the watchtower in pictures you've used, or any on alters. heres a couple of questions
Is there a watchtower image (not word) on every KH ever built in fact on even one? you probably found the only physical piece of watchtower art that depicts an actual watchtower :s in the whole 7million strong congregations and it's probably the publishing house, my next question do the GB make pilgrimages to it and kiss it reverently?
now I will submit some pictorial evidence......
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Yes reniaa, I do want this conversation. All of those pictures refer to, or imply, Catholicism, and are not therefore, reflective of Christianity as a whole. Btw, do you want your picture taken with one of the members of the Governing Body? Cos if you do, the next time they're speaking at a convention near you, you'll be offered the chance!
But, hey, you stick with the WTS who say you can't get the holy spirit to help you understand the Bible, that the Bible wasn't written for you anyway, that you're part of a great crowd of other sheep who hope to live on a paradise earth.*
Christians look to the cross as a symbol of God's love and mercy. If Catholics wish to venerate the cross, that's up to them, they'll explain themselves to Christ for doing so, as will 'mainstream' Christians who recognise the cross as being where Christ put sin to death, and as will JWs who happily accept that the blood of the new covenant wasn't poured out for them, but for 144,000 people max, ever.
Actually, I've changed my mind, I don't want this conversation with you. I'm sorry to say you represent everything I despise about the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society.
*no such thing as a great crowd of other sheep and the Bible nowhere talks about a paradise earth. -
reniaa
reniaa: "So if using faulty dates is a reason to condemn a religion then I think we would have to condemn all religions".
You mean all religions that set faulty dates, right? And why should we not do that? They were foretold in the bible, right? Matthew 24.but then if we condemn all faiths for anticipating dates then we wouldn't even follow the bible because even in thessalonians they anticipated jesus. Like I've said in the past I'll forgive a religion for making obviously human mistakes but there is a point of no returnI idolatry, false worship to a God that is not JHWH, supporting fornication/adolatry in their congregation, encouraging members to kill each other in conflict so murder etc you know the bigger issues!
Now if someone tells me that they left JW's because of one of these nitpicky issues more to do with human error which itself is recorded in the bible and then they go on to join a faith/religion or lack of faith(Atheism, agnostism etc) that advocates the above major wrongdoings how can I respect them?
Reniaa
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wobble
I left,after fifty-eight years,because the Governing Body blasphemously takes the place of our Lord Jesus and claims THEY are the mediator,they are "Gods Channel" etc. They also claim to directly get messages from the spirit realm (who are they listening to?)
These are NOT nit-picking issues to me, I am fearfull of being associated with blasphemers,because God's judgement will come upon them "outside will be the liars" Rev.
LoveWobble
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isaacaustin
hmmm it kinda depends how you define prophet, they have never actually given a date for armegeddon, lol if 1975 is ever mentioned in a watchtower as a date i'm sure it wold have been shown me before now :)
Umm, yes they did. The end 'had to come before the generation that saw the events of 1914 compltely passed away"
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reniaa
Yes reniaa, I do want this conversation. All of those pictures refer to, or imply, Catholicism, and are not therefore, reflective of Christianity as a whole. Btw, do you want your picture taken with one of the members of the Governing Body? Cos if you do, the next time they're speaking at a convention near you, you'll be offered the chance!
But, hey, you stick with the WTS who say you can't get the holy spirit to help you understand the Bible, that the Bible wasn't written for you anyway , that you're part of a great crowd of other sheep who hope to live on a paradise earth.*
Christians look to the cross as a symbol of God's love and mercy. If Catholics wish to venerate the cross, that's up to them, they'll explain themselves to Christ for doing so, as will 'mainstream' Christians who recognise the cross as being where Christ put sin to death, and as will JWs who happily accept that the blood of the new covenant wasn't poured out for them, but for 144,000 people max, ever.
Actually, I've changed my mind, I don't want this conversation with you. I'm sorry to say you represent everything I despise about the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society.
*no such thing as a great crowd of other sheep and the Bible nowhere talks about a paradise earth.some of the piccies are catholic they were fairly random, some are other faiths but since i'm not big on what ceremonial robes various priests use in there own church cross ceremonies. i'm lost I know most churches have cross on an alter and people kneel before them my ex partner is born-again and they have kneeling masses etc. but your right the worst and biggest idolator is catholism the grandaddy of current christianity but in tearing themselves away why is it only the JWs that have dropped the cross not wanting even a small part of that idolatry.
do you believe in rapture then? something I'm hearing lot from born agains lately? it's also a non-biblical word.
you don't believe in a paradise on earth but what then was God's intention with Adam who originally was meant for permanent residency on earth if the scriptures are to be believed
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all [b] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
15 Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Revelation 2:7
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. -
isaacaustin
Revelation 2:7
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.Where is this paradise of God Reniaa?
do really want this conversation Passwordprotected?
