@ pp - tautology - no cross in sight anywhere. Tut tut.
WANTED ! JW Apologist
by wobble 389 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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passwordprotected
@ besty - BLAST! [voice of Stewy from Family Guy...]
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reniaa
hi awakenned actually I do understand your point of view especially if your an atheist, to you all christianity is in the same bag of false teaching with all other God believing religions but to me who believes in the bible and believes the God we have is a'jealous' God then I have to be more indepth about it, I want the 'truth' and whatever things you find fault with Jw's scripturally I think their position on Jehovah is solid and the trinity is a'house built on unbiblical sand' the scriptures for one God are in every book of the bible describing his nature as one but there is no description of his nature as 3 only peoples attempts to link him to Jesus and the holy ghost mistaken similarity, representation, mediatorship, fulfillment of a son for his father's goals.
HI besty I think there was amisunderstanding between us I at first thought you were telling me I couldn't be aJw unless I believed in 1919, but accepting it is a different thing, I'm not a big fan of dates because the bible is very clear only God knows the time but it's clear on two other things that are relevent in this case.
First there will be indicators that we are in the 'time of the end' and those that read and listen to the bible have to be prepared for it, in the past many have cried wolf before (nearly all christian faiths have tried to put a date on it) but to me never has the world been so different as it is now and never has religion as a whole gone so far away from bible teachings as it is becoming now. So preparing people for an 'end' that maybe soon Jw's are doing their job and if they say it started in 1919 well who knows but they certainly may have been given holy spirit around that time to see truths in the bible other christian faiths seem obstinately blind too, clinging to the trinity and cross as if their lifes depend on them even though biblically they are not there. One bible fact! it says the truth will be preach to the entire inhabited earth then the end will come, atm only mormons and Jws quallify and for me Jw's defo beat Mormons however sincere mormons are on book of mormon.
Secondly show me a perfect religion and I'll join it, if one thing bible history and history itself since has shown us that whatever man does he cannot save himself and this effected the religions God set up holy spirit cannot stop us going wrong, we need God to correct us and so for me a religion following his bible the most has greatest pull for me.
Password I'm not saying 1919 is unscriptual in the same sense as trinity and cross are because they represent the very substance of God in the first commandment and idolatry in it's clearest meaning 'no graven image to be bowed to etc on heaven or on earth' to me a few dates are not even on the same level they just conflict with no one knowing the time and as I said the bible indicates that people will be preaching God's proper truth in his bible at the 'time of the end' hmmm I don't want to speculate to much myself but atm the Jw's have it the most right and if they are not God's chosen yet, if more time is needed before the harvest, I can see what comes from them being more likely than christendom that still follow false 1600 year old teachings drawn to appease public and political people. christendom is stale and static unable to change accept with public opinion.
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mrsjones5
Ok what I got from that ramble was: 1. The Watchtower is not perfect and oops they may have made a few mistakes but they are closer to perfection than any other religion. 2. If there is a perfect religion out there Reniaa will join it.
Hm, seems confusing to me but I guess that's Reniaa's justification for not being a jw right now....cuz the Watchtower ain't perfect.
I get it now, Reniaa's a jw wannabee apologist apostate!
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isaacaustin
First there will be indicators that we are in the 'time of the end'
Such as?
and those that read and listen to the bible have to be prepared for it, in the past many have cried wolf before (nearly all christian faiths have tried to put a date on it)
We are not talking about 'all other faiths'. If the WT is the one true religion what all others do are irrelevant.
but to me never has the world been so different as it is now and never has religion as a whole gone so far away from bible teachings as it is becoming now.
So preparing people for an 'end' that maybe soon Jw's are doing their job
False prophecying is ok because at least you are doing your job preparing others for the end? Many churches have prepatred their members for the end without uttering a false prophecy.
and if they say it started in 1919 well who knows but they certainly may have been given holy spirit around that time to see truths in the bible other christian faiths seem obstinately blind too,
Umm, please expand on exactly what they were teaching around 1919 that would indicate they were given any measure of the Holy Spirit.
clinging to the trinity
usual WT rhetoric...blah blah blah
and cross
again, the cross is not an object of worship...but you are parroting what the WT told you....
as if their lifes depend on them even though biblically they are not there.
In your opinion- well, really in the WT opinion....
One bible fact! it says the truth will be preach to the entire inhabited earth then the end will come, atm only mormons and Jws quallify and for me Jw's defo beat Mormons however sincere mormons are on book of mormon.
You are making two assumptions (false assumptions) in this last sentence. The bible says the good news will be preached- it does not say it will be delivered to each person's doorstep. So that knocks out your "it has to be the Mormons or JWs" theory. #2- the JWs are preaching anything but the Gospel preached by Paul. There is nothing of Jesus in the WT gospel. Hmm, Gal 1:8 seemed to have something to say on that. Ummmmm:
Gal 1;8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Oh wow. He says it twice. Must be pretty serious. he describes this other gospel verses before- corrupting the grace of Jesus with man's rules.
Sorry but there are plenty of churches out there preaching the truth- salvation in Jesus. My church has MANY missionary outreaches all throughout the year to share the gospel.
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mrsjones5
That's it - the Watchtower preaches legalism, a return to the law done away with by Christ's death. The Watchtower preaches that salvation is in works making Christ sacrafice invalid and nullifying the communion. The Watchtower has no use for Jesus and has relegated him to savior/mediator of only the 144,000 and placed itself as the savior/mediator of all mankind in the false role of the faithful and discreet slave making themselves demi-gods.
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Earnest
The Watchtower has no use for Jesus and has relegated him to savior/mediator of only the 144,000
This misunderstanding been repeated ad nauseam and really should be debunked. What the Watchtower has said is that the term mediator is used in a legal sense, a contractual sense, which relates to the 144,000. If you substitute some other word for 'mediator', for example 'go-between', all JWs recognise Jesus as the one through whom they pray and who acts on their behalf in approach to God. In addition the Watchtower has never suggested, to my knowledge, that Jesus is only saviour of the 144,000. I would appreciate any references to the contrary.
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mrsjones5
I'm sure you will get what you asked for Earnest
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isaacaustin
Yes Ernest...Blondie should be here soon I am sure :)
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carla
Why is it jw's do not know their own literature?
from a very quick google see below. It would take less than 15 minutes for a jw to reasearch their own literature but they don't, they leave it to apostates. brilliant.
from -http://www.jwfiles.com/mediator.htm
w89 8/15 31 Questions From Readers *** The people of all nations who have the hope of everlasting life on earth benefit even now from Jesus’ services. Though he is not their legal Mediator, for they are not in the new covenant, he is their means of approaching Jehovah.
*Worldwide Security 1986, p10 The Desire for Peace and Security Worldwide *** Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members.
from -http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/mediator.htm
"So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians." - Watchtower 1979 April 1 p.31
"Is Jesus the "mediator" only for anointed Christians? … So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians. …The "great crowd" of "other sheep" that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the "little flock" of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant." Watchtower 1979 April 1 p.31
"They recognize that they are not spiritual Israelites in the new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ, nor part of the "chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation."-1 Pet. 2:9. 24 Yet they do benefit from the operation of the new covenant. They benefit from this just as, in ancient Israel, the "alien resident" benefited from residing in among the Israelites who were in the Law covenant.-Ex. 20:10; Lev. 19:10, 33, 34; Rev. 7:9-15. 25 To keep in relationship with "our Savior, God," the "great crowd" needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites." Watchtower 1979 November 15 p.27 Benefiting from "One Mediator Between God and Men"Watchtower 1991 February 15 p.18 "Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God's Kingdom. Christ still acts toward them, however, as High Priest, through whom Jehovah can and does apply the ransom to the extent of their now being declared righteous as God's friends. (Compare James 2:23.)"
These are just a few.