WANTED ! JW Apologist (page 30)

Earnest

besty, since you are bringing me into it, and after noting that you seem to prevaricate as much as you suggest R does in not giving a straight answer to a straight question (although I note that you have now conceded that your quote only refers to 'present truths')...I answered your question several posts ago to suggest that if there was a basis for selecting the WTS in 1919 it had nothing to do with unique truths but with the willingness of a group to change their beliefs in accordance with increased understanding of scripture.

I know that this is not entirely in accord with the interpretation of Revelation etc where specific assemblies were foretold two thousand years ago but that is as absurd as it is embarrassing. Whenever WTS representatives have given evidence in court (I think of both the Moyle and the Walsh trials) it is their willingness to correct their beliefs rather than their emphasis on uniqueness which they have acknowledged.

wobble

Earnest,

This is not what "God's Spirit Directed Org" claims is the basis,even today,I have not heard that claim being used before,and what had they changed in 1919 from their inception in the 1870's that showed this willingness to our Lord?

Love

Wobble

Earnest

This is not what "God's Spirit Directed Org" claims is the basis,even today,I have not heard that claim being used before

wobble : Yes, I know. In my earlier more elaborate response (my post 779 on 2/13/2009) I specifically said

...this is my own answer rather than one I have read in the Watchtower or heard from the platform so I suppose it cannot be viewed as an official answer but it will have to do.

I also added

Personally, I do not see that Jesus or anyone else taught that there would be such a group. However, I do accept Reniaa's contention that if I was to associate with a Christian group I would do so with those whose primary beliefs were most in harmony with the Bible.

Since my name was used in vain, I am simply presenting the most reasonable argument to me if I were God and chose this group. Since I am not God and he may well not have chosen this group there is not much more I can say on the subject.

what had they changed in 1919 from their inception in the 1870's that showed this willingness to our Lord?

That is not the point. William Miller was far more willing to change in 1844 but he doesn't seem to have been chosen (except, perhaps, as a Bridesmaid according to certain groups). The point is simply a matter of timing. Supposing that God did choose them I would think it was because they were at the right place at the right time. Or perhaps this was all part of a divine plan going on since 1799 gradually eliminating falsehoods and getting people ready for this momentous event. As I said before, we do not know God's mind and can only conjecture.

oompa

Besty: PS Note ugly bloke directly to the left, along with gender icon :-) manly hugs accepted tho :-) I have no need to 'let go' - i just like to see things settled if possible. Reniaa has bailed so its just you and Earnest left.

There is no reason not to believe they have claimed uniqueness from 1919 and before - otherwise why would Jesus have chosen them? How would he know they were different if they had nothing differentiating them? ergo 'unique'

LMAO!!!........I must have look at this thread so much my eyes are blurry, or else i thought is said Betsy!!!...sorry mand and btw....you look kinda cute, i may have a mancrush.....

Here is how my wise dad/elder answers you question above, "son, for me it is enough that they had so many MAJOR doctrines, actual Bible teachings correct...and these have NOT changed over the years. The trinity, imortal soul and hellfire being a lie are just a few that come to mind. Also, they were the only ones distributing this information in so many countries, and already knew they had to do this on a worldwide basis. I think that would be enough reason for Jesus to chose them, and he knew he would straighten out any misconceptions they were teaching over the years. This would also show that he felt they were humble."..........................we had this actual conversation before....................oompa

OUTLAW

Oompa..Interesting last post.........Still............The fact remains.....God/Jesus,who ever does the hireing.(LOL!!)..Chooses who Gods people will be.....The WBT$ chose themselves!.....That`s just Stupid!..LOL!!.....The WBT$ could have just as easily declaired themselves all "Brain Surgeons!".....Bethel would be a Hospital that Specializes in Brain Surgery,with a 100% mortality rate!...........Instead..The WBT$is a self proclaimed Organization of God..That preach`s Ever Lasting Life..With a 100% mortality rate!..

Laughing Mutley ...OUTLAW

tenyearsafter

ugh Oompa...that line of reasoning drives me crazy. I have heard that from my own mother and it just isn't true. There were numerous 2nd Adventist birthed religions that taught the same things. The 7th Day Adventists and Christadelphians had the same beliefs about the major doctrines. It wasn't until later years that SDA's accepted the Trinity. They still don't believe in Hellfire or Immortal Soul, and do believe that Jesus was Michael the Archangel. Even Mormons don't teach Trinity and Hellfire.

Why is it ok to ignore "minor" falsehoods or errors when it comes to choosing the earthly channel of God on earth, but it is acceptable (and mandatory) to discipline the members of that very group for a myriad of "minor" infractions as defined by that chosen group?? Me thinks something doesn't add up....

besty

Earnest, come on....

willingness of a group to change their beliefs in accordance with increased understanding of scripture

Surely you meant to say willingness to change their beliefs when their false prophecies ran out of time?

Or perhaps willingness to change their beliefs back and forth, back and forth, back and forth?

Or even willingness to change their beliefs for monetary or legal reasons?

Not forgetting we are talking about the omniscient Creator of the universe who wants his message spread earthwide and the best he can do is choose a Brooklyn publishing company that could later be claimed 'willing to change their beliefs' because He can't get them to get it right first time? That doesn't even make sense.

And then to prove His choice, all the evidence he gives them to establish their credentials is after-the-fact 'willingness to change their beliefs'? (again ignoring their self-proclaimed circular nonsense about Cedar Point)

Come on Earnest.

it is their willingness to correct their beliefs rather than their emphasis on uniqueness which they have acknowledged

Not according to Haydn Covington in 1954 under oath - "We must have uniformity at all costs"

The rest of your explanation is as you say conjecture, but I accept that you are defending a position as Devils advocate almost, and its not necessarily a position you would otherwise defend.

besty

Sheesh - now I'm debating with a vicarious Oompa :-)

"son, for me it is enough that they had so many MAJOR doctrines, actual Bible teachings correct...and these have NOT changed over the years. The trinity, imortal soul and hellfire being a lie are just a few that come to mind. Also, they were the only ones distributing this information in so many countries, and already knew they had to do this on a worldwide basis. I think that would be enough reason for Jesus to chose them, and he knew he would straighten out any misconceptions they were teaching over the years. This would also show that he felt they were humble."

Sounds like he is suffering (as most JW's do) from confirmation bias.

"In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias is a tendency to search for or interpret new information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions and to avoid information and interpretations which contradict prior beliefs."

He has made his mind up already and now seeks confirming information, whilst not actually undertaking a history study - I suspect he and others focus on these 'softer' claims as the 'harder' specific evidence clearly points to the WTS being completely uninspired and un-directed. http://www.bibletopics.com/BIBLESTUDY/88.htm

In the best tradition of Internet discussion I will revert to Hitler:

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it"

The WTS have this down to a fine art.

1 - We are Gods sole channel

2 - Do what we say

3 - You can live forever on paradise earth if you believe (1) and (2)

Earnest

Earnest : Whenever WTS representatives have given evidence in court (I think of both the Moyle and the Walsh trials) it is their willingness to correct their beliefs rather than their emphasis on uniqueness which they have acknowledged.
besty : Not according to Haydn Covington in 1954 under oath - "We must have uniformity at all costs"

Covington also said, under oath, that "there is every reason for a change in interpretation as we view it, of the Bible. Our view becomes more clear as we see the prophesy fulfilled by time". However, now that I have reread much of the transcript I see I was wrong to suggest there was not also an emphasis on uniqueness and requirement of conformity. I guess my memory was a bit selective in this instance.

oompa

tenyears: Ugh oompa...that line of reasoning drives me crazy. I have heard this from my mother and it just isn't true. There were numerous 2nd Adventist birthed religions that taught the same thing.

i agree with you on others having the teaching....but my dad did have one point in that Russel and group were hellbent on getting the word out....radio, newspapers, soundcars, placards on people, signs....and reaching out all over the world............so maybe jesus likes aggresive advertising????...............oompa

WANTED ! JW Apologist

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