Clarifying the Trinity Doctrine

by UnDisfellowshipped 123 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Imo to understand the "orthodox" (in that case, including "Catholic" and mainstream "Protestant") Trinity doctrine one must not stop at the theology (stricto sensu, i.e. doctrine of "God") defined in Nicea (325) but follow the Christological sequel down to Chalcedon (451) at least. Because only through this (historically painful) development did the Nicene definition become relatively stable (and viable from both an ideological and "political" standpoint).

    Iow, no Trinity definition can be understood apart from a Christology (and also a pneumatology, i.e. doctrine of the Spirit, although the importance of the latter is less conspicuous in church dogmatic history). You can't discuss the relationship of "God the Son" to "God the Father" without considering at the same time the relationship of "God the Son" to "the man Jesus". That's what Christology is about (one or two "natures," one or two "persons," one or two "wills" in Jesus). The "orthodox" solution (by the above definition) to this corollary issue implies the doctrine of hypostatic union, including the enhypostasy of the logos (the divine, uncreated Word assumes the human, created flesh as the only "person" in Jesus in spite of two natures) and the anhypostasy of the sarx (the human nature in Jesus is thought of as "personless").

    It results in a logical distinction between two kinds of Trinity, the ontological Trinity (referring to the eternal relationship of Father, Son and Holy Spirit apart from the "event" of Incarnation) and the economical Trinity (referring to the "historical" relationship of God the Father, the incarnated Son and the Holy Spirit in the church) which must be theoretically thought even to be practically denied (as is the case in most "preaching" theologies such as Karl Barth's).

    The WT criticism of the orthodox Trinity practically never explores this aspect of the doctrine, except to dismiss it as "too complex" in an anti-intellectualist way; while there is some merit (and certain popular efficiency) to this argument of excessive complexity, if one stops there it cannot claim to refute the doctrine as it really stands.

  • Colton
    Colton

    So, according to the Watchtower, Jesus is a false god.

  • JustHuman14
    JustHuman14

    Narkissos you have indeed pointed very good issues regarding Trinity. The problem with WT is that attacks the Trinity dogma without really expain their points. They are heretics and follow Arius herecy that came 16 centuries ago. Nicaia Synodos had to verify the Trinity dogma since at that time no one has ever challenge what was believed and accepted by the Early Apostolic Church. That Jesus is God, like the Father and Holy Spirit. We find this at the early letters of the succesors of the Apostoles and Bishops, like bishop Ignatius 120 A.D. They just wipe out the entire history of the Apostolic Church in order to give support to their existense.

    Unfortunately WT ignores all the facts, like letters from the early Bishops that show they accepted Trinity. They just drag from the Bible single verses to point out that God, the Father is superior from Jesus and Jesus is created. They ignore (as usual)verses that indicate the opposite, such as the devine name YHWH that the Father, Son, Holy Spirit share. Also when Jesus was on Earth he had the human nature, therefore He had a lower nature from the Father who was spirit.

    The worst thing is that they try to explain Godly things with human thinking, nature and logic. Jesus said that I cannot reveal to you the entire heavenly things because you will not understand them. Indeed Christianity from certain point and beyond logic stops and then faith comes in. Like reserrection, Trinity, Holy Communion, Baptism, are some of the Seven Mysteries of the Church that we accept them beyond any logical explaination.

    JustHuman14 formely known justhuman

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    People have been arguing about this since at least 325 CE.

    I think we'll settle it here, today, on the Interwebs. At long last. Finally.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Why stop at god as 3 persons;)

    S

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Why stop at god as 3 persons;)

    :-)

    If we all proceed from God and return to Him and we share in the Divine Life through the indwelling of God within even now (and our dwelling within God) what does that suggest?

    BTS

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Or, how an inclusive concept of the deity cast out of the main door as "Gnostic heresy" in the 2nd century reenters through the window as "economical Trinity" in the 4th-5th centuries...

  • thomas15
    thomas15

    To sort of paraphrase Chuck Colson, there is God above me, God beside me and God within me.

    Tom

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    I think we'll settle it here, today, on the Interwebs. At long last. Finally.

    LOL!

    OK this verse settles it

    Romans 8:9 (New International Version)

    9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

    One Spirit, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and also the Spirit of Christ. Thus, all three are God, one God in three persons.

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • creativhoney
    creativhoney

    im a short poster but what about Horus, Isis and Osiris?

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