Hi I hope i am welcome

by cantleave 188 Replies latest jw friends

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  LUKEWARM

  And were is ray franz lukewarm? enjoying the money from the sales of his books no doubt as well as not being in any religion or promoting a faith in God. he is an apostate by action his fruitage is just to take away people's faith. I would respect him more if he had been a russel type and saw the wrongdoing then setting up a faith that did not do the wrongs but kept what he felt was the purity. but he didn't he went commercial instead.
  Reniaa

  You seem to me to be very ignorant about his books Reinaa and yet you have the arrogance to pass judgement on the man, his research and BIBLE BASED thoughts. Its obvious to me you have no idea what you are talking about
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  isaacaustin

  Reniaa your comments on ray Franz show you have never read any of his wiritng yet have spoken on them as though you are an authority on what he wrote. I would suggest you read his books. You owuld learn alot and see how your statements are completely inaccurate.
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  Witness 007

  Join the club my friend...welcome from "Australia Branch."
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  quietlyleaving

  Hi and of course you are welcome
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  TD

  Hi cantleave

  I think you've put your finger on some legitimate problems within the JW faith and you're getting some of the exact same lame excuses that everyone gets.

  You point out the obvious truth that predatory animals eat just exactly what they were designed to eat from the beginning. The idea of an all vegetarian ecology is a fairy tale invented by St. Augustine. And even if you were to forget predation entirely, scavengers who eat dead bodies are an integral part of the decomposition chain and this alone violates the Witness concept of "original purpose." (Although paradoxically, it is sometimes praised in the literature as evidence of a wise Creator.)

  There are people that will tell you this is a problem with the Bible rather than a problem with doctrine.

  Bunk! The restoration prophecies of Isaiah were never meant to be taken literally. Eating dust (Isa 65:25) is not a form of vegetarianism. Even if they are taken literally, predation is only foretold to cease on domestic animals (e.g. Sheep, cattle and goats.)

  Many people in your position are troubled when the leaders and policy makers within the JW faith demand the respect that would accompany Divine inspiration, but they are unwilling to accept any of the responsibility that would go along with it. (i.e. If you're inspired, you can't be mistaken.)

  There are people that will tell you that this is a problem with all religions

  Bunk! Other religions certainly have their problems, but those that do in some way assume the status of prophet are very careful when and where they don this mantel. For example, the Mormon church claims to be spirit directed and claims to have a prophet. However actually speaking in that capacity is a relatively unusual event. Witnesses love to poke fun at the Catholic doctrine of Papal infallibility, but everything the Pope says does not carry ex cathedra authority. Like the Mormons, it is unusual for the Pope to speak in that capacity.

  In contrast, the Witnesses draw no such distinction. Everything that is printed in The Watchtower is presented as the Truth without equivocation. Openly disagreeing even on minutia carries a significant risk.

  There are people that will tell you that this was even a problem in the 1st century.

  Bunk! The example they always cite (John 21:21-23) "This saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die" is a perfect example of this distinction. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that this "saying" was accorded the status of inspired teaching. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that 1st century Christians were forced on pain of expulsion to accept this "saying." The two situatios are not parallel at all and the Witnesses are simply dragging the reputations of the Apostles through the mud to make themselves look better.

  You mentioned that you like science. You might find some of these amusing:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/140892/1/JW-Science-Quote-Of-The-Day-8-26

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/140936/1/JW-Science-Quote-Of-The-Day-8-27

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/141006/1/JW-Science-Quote-Of-The-Day-8-28

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/141043/1/JW-Science-Quote-Of-The-Day-8-29
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  reniaa

  I do not care whether animals are/will be predators or not, TD this is a bible issue since no man can have the answer outside the bible it isn't doctrinally necessary at all. it's similar to how long is a God day one.

  The popes just recently flipfloped on hell they decided it was fire then it wasn't. their most recent change was to take 'Jehovah' from all there churches they have decided that Gods name should not be spoken by their people. they have yet to decide on whether women are allowed to use contraception but i'm not sure on the latest stand on this one.

  Mornons have their own set of guidelines they follow. and they have had to change, they have the unigueness of being one of the few religions that have had to change there actual bible/book of mormon so the wording is less racist from it's original authorship. And it is only recently that black men have been alowed to be priests in their church.

  I wanted to join a christianity church I would be ablige to become trinitarian or accept I am someone the priest tolerates but it won't stop him doing trinitarian sermons at me.

  All religions have their doctrines but I am with the Jws because their in my opinion reflect the bible the most and the principles in it for cleanliving and looking to Jehovah and his son for answers.

  Reniaa
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  isaacaustin

  while your analysis sounds good on the surface Reniaa...it does not truly describe the JW religion. The captives do not truly 'reflect the bible the most and the principles in it for cleanliving and looking to Jehovah and his son for answers'. The followers look to the Wt pubs for answers. The WT is their rulebook. While the bible may be read it is never done without the WT doctrine as the touchstone...the Bible being read as some sort of dictionary, verses being read already with the conclusions drawn...WT doctrine essentially being read into the texts. That is the reality of the matter.
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  Cadellin

  Cantleave: Welcome, you are SO welcome here!! I am in a very similar position as you, and you will find so many others in the same boat. This is a great place to get perspective and support.

  As others have said, Crisis of Conscience is a must-read. I'm going through agonies trying to decide what to do--and I have a child as well. Are you still going door to door? I'm trying the slow fade, but I have to be careful how far I take it. I am looking forward to your posts!
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  OnTheWayOut

  Hey, cantleave. Welcome to the forum. We understand your situation better than most anyone else in the world.

  We all have our own path to choose. I hope that you will come to realize that there are some things you can do in your future to minimize your JW life, but most importantly, you can minimize WT's influence on your kids as they grow up and, hopefully, out of the WT cult.

  Similarly, my wife is devout. She has family "in." My mother is "in." But I don't have kids. I suppose its easier on me as I was willing to lose all the so-called friends in "the truth" and faded just for my mother's sake. Still, don't be so sure that your future cannot change. You might need to make changes. We're here for you, regardless of what you do, regardless of what you ask of us or think about advice given.
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  poppers

  From renaai: I cannot change anyones mind. People can only change themselves,

  This is so true, but what happens when people do change? The society tries to force "encourage" them to change it back. And if they don't they suffer dire consequences. Why can't they just accept the fact that people have the right to make their own decisions without threat or actions that ruin people's lives? Why can't they just let people go and live their lives as they see fit without losing family and friends over it?