Hi I hope i am welcome

by cantleave 188 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  isaacaustin

  And were is ray franz lukewarm? enjoying the money from the sales of his books no doubt as well as not being in any religion or promoting a faith in God.

  My reply: Actually Ray does promote faith in God. He actually shares much of your views regarding the trinity...hellfire and imortality of the soul. The lack of being involved in a rlegion does not make one damned. And where is the sin in receiving compensation for his book- that he obviously spent many hours working on?

  he is an apostate by action his fruitage is just to take away people's faith.

  My reply: Definitely not true...his staed purpose is to help others to deepen their relationship with God and Christ without the need for human intermediaries. His writings support his claim.

  I would respect him more if he had been a russel type and saw the wrongdoing then setting up a faith that did not do the wrongs but kept what he felt was the purity. but he didn't he went commercial instead.

  Reniaa

  My reply: You mean you would have respected him more if he formed his own cult??
• 

  Chalam

  Hi The-Borg,

  Spike Tassel, Reniaa. According to your leaders we are the evil slave class and condemned to go to gehenna and the second death.

  I beg to differ. They do not believe in the second death. Have a read for yourself. No JW believes these verses.

  Revelation 20:10 (New International Version)

  10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

  Revelation 20:14-15 (New International Version)

  14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  reniaa

  his own Religion lol unless you count all religions as cults and that puts you firmly in one too.

  from your words he is promoting no leaders among men and this is not biblical, but I don't want o go over another leaders in men discussion, if you want the scriptures on this as franz did that his and your choice.

  Reniaa
• 

  isaacaustin

  his own Religion lol unless you count all religions as cults and that puts you firmly in one too.

  My reply: Show me scriptuarally where he has to form his own relgion to be acceptable?

  from your words he is promoting no leaders among men and this is not biblical, but I don't want o go over another leaders in men discussion, if you want the scriptures on this as franz did that his and your choice.

  Reniaa

  My reply: He promotes Jesus as our leader...and he actually does promote leadership among men....making very valid points on what type of leadership and how the leadership should lead and act. You obviously have not read In Search of Christian Freedom...otherwise you would know this. So, having not read his writings you have no basis for criticism of him.
• 

  isaacaustin

  When I said that he encourages the deepening of one's relationship with God and Christ without the need for human intermediaries I did not mean he was against leadership. He showed how one's relationship should not be dependent on that leadership- as it is in the WT.
• 

  reniaa

  ehhn chalam we do believe in second death but since its symbolic we don't believe in a literal fiery one.

  Revelation 20:14-15 (New International Version)

  14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

  the fact it says death and hades can be thrown into must show you this is a symbolic representation?

  Reniaa
• 

  isaacaustin

  right Chalam, they beleive the 2nd death is symbolic of just menaing finality.
• 

  reniaa

  So we can have leaders and still follow God and his son our LEADER were was he making the difference then?

  because that is the witnesses do. It sounds like he's just was against some of their actions as leaders which is flawed thinking since leadership in men being perfect is not going to happen in this time. If he wanted to change things for the better he should have stayed inside and worked for refinement.

  Reniaa
• 

  mouthy

  OOPS REBEL!!!!!!! That was ME that said that...Yes Reniaa is right .I meant SHE will be caught by the WT..
  As for Ray Franz. They have a gathering every week at differant houses.BIBLE STUDY!!!!Not BOOKS
  He is the most humble man I ever was privileged to meet ..So becareful Reniaa,this is a man you really would not want to judge.He believes in examining the scriptures to see if this is true or not.
  When I visited him,we were invited to spend lunch with him & MANY others .Cynthia & he were SO
  hospitable. & listening to all the heartaches each one had suffered around the table from the tentecles of the WT was heart rendering. Not a bit of resentment about his sufferings, I am & will always be so greatful
  for him helping so many thousands find their own minds. After all we now know all was not as we believed
  in Brooklyn Bethel who passed down the rules of god ( little g) to all the kids that had to suffer at the hands of a few old men .including MY kids... who are dead now..3 in death, two to the wt. I regret every day what I did to them .......no fun in their lives at all.Until Melanie decided she would listen to Christ...& died in PEACE!!!!!!! KNOWING SHE WAS HEAVEN BOUND
• 

  isaacaustin

  So we can have leaders and still follow God and his son our LEADER were was he making the difference then?

  My reply to reniaa: What???

  because that is the witnesses do. It sounds like he's just was against some of their actions as leaders which is flawed thinking since leadership in men being perfect is not going to happen in this time. If he wanted to change things for the better he should have stayed inside and worked for refinement.

  Reniaa

  My reply: Refinement?? The false prophecies of the WT show it has nothing to do with God and is not, nor has it ever been associated with, let alone refined by God.